Controllogix to SMC Flex via 20-COMM-R

Customer installed two SMC Flex soft starters to replace Dialog Plus units that died.

They have everything set up correctly on one of them and the other is locked out awaiting a motor replacement.

Unit 1 is Rack 3, group 0, 1/4 rack and is apparently talking to the CPU just fine.

Unit 2 is Rack 3, group 2, 1/4 rack and powered down. There are no more devices on this logical rack.

Unit 1 shows no faults on the HIM, and I can run it in Hand (selector switch to the terminal strip) or from the Keypad.

I have tried all possible wiring options and parameter changes in the book and some not in the book, and I cannot get this thing to run via RIO control.

I always have bits 7, 8, and 9 coming in to the RIO input word 0. Bit 7 is the Fault bit according to my book and I forget what the others mean. I never see the enabled bit turn on. None of these bits ever change states unless I inhibit the module in RSLogix 5000and zero them myself.

There are no faults on the HIM for the 20-COMM-R or the Flex SMC. I can make it fault by changing parameters and then the HIM will flash the Network Loss fault, but those three bits coming back over the RIO network are the only three I ever see and they never change.

I have power cycled the whole system, power cycled just the SMC multiple times and I am stumped. I disabled the rungs controlling the output bits that should control the stop and start inputs to the starter and toggled them manually in every possible conceivable order and pattern and I have gotten no response.

The HIM shows "Stopped". The HIM and the DPI port 5 are both masked in. Matter of fact, I turned on all the logic mask bits to no avail.

There is a remote HIM mounted on the enclosure door. There is a HIM built into the starter, and then there is also the 20-COMM-R, in case there is a limit to the number of DPI devices.

I am going back to the site after lunch and use their Techconnect to phone a friend, but I am not optimistic on this one. I do not believe they have any spare parts, but I may try to see if I can control the state of one of the Flex outputs and wire it to the bypass contactor. This application should be fine running DOL, but I want to get to the bottom of this mystery today if possible.

If anyone has seen this before or has any ideas for me, I would be grateful.

Paul

Paul,

I'm not sure if you have covered all of these bases, but have a squint at this Technote, just in case. The Stop assertion is a common enough stumbling block I've seen before...

518634 - SMC-Flex Soft Starter: Won't Start Motor Using a 20-COMM Communications Card
Access Level: Everyone

I'm going for some dinner now (7PM here) and will be around again in a while if I can be of any further assistance.

Regards,
George

That was a good technote, thanks. I wish I did actually have a stop asserted somewhere, but no dice.

The Tech support fellow sent another one aimed at datalinks from a SLC, but at least he tried . . .

It's time to start slinging parts shotgun style, starting with the easy one. New 20-COMM-R coming right up...

Something is amiss when my bits coming back are wrong and do not change. I can unplug the blue hose and make the SMC fault, then I can zero the input words from the 20-COMM-R, plug in the blue hose, and those three bits come right back on.

I hope this is something simple and I end up feeling stupid . . .

New 20-COMM-R module acts the same way, we are trying a new DPI ribbon cable just to be 100% sure and then as much as I hate to do it, I will have them swap out the SMC itself, although I doubt this solves our problem.

Since I can start it from the HIM and from the terminal strip, I can be pretty sure there is no stop being issued. Also, I cannot stop it from the 20-COMM-R, nor reset the alleged fault, nor get anything for feedback except as I described.

I suspect this is going to end up being some obscure firmware thing if the other SMC Flex acts the same way.

I mean it is just a 1/4 rack of I/O, nothing special about whether it once was an SMC dialog and now it's a Flex...

They used 82 ohm termination on the blue hose...is that right for 57.6k with 1756-DHRIO?

Okay, so the 2nd word of feedback, which is supposedly always current from Phase A, changes when the stop signal is asserted from the HIM and it changes when the SMC is running. So something is fishy here. This is a module defined data type for the DHRIO card called "AB:RIO_2IOGROUP:I:0" and it worked with the SMC dialog...

Okay I surrender trying to solve the mystery, I just want the darn thing to run now, time to swap in the other starter...

See attached file.

Paul:
Maybe you've seen this before but I have installed more than 60 smc flex with the same configuration, always with 20-comm-d never 20-comm-r.
Attached is the way the wiring I have always used.
Hope this can help you.

Paul,

Just a quick question: What is the value of P87 (Logic Mask)?

For dual HIM (Port 2 and Port 3) and Port 5(DPI) control it needs to be 44.
...One HIM (Port 2) and Port 5(DPI) control P87 = 36
...Only Port5(DPI) control P87 = 32

Maybe one of the HIMs has an issue: I'd try P87 = 32

Logic Mask: I am looking at it in binary format on the door mounted HIM, but I have tried every value 8 bits can hold and the behavior has not changed. I can successfully mask out the HIM with that parameter (bit 2) and have always kept bit 5 turned on (value of 32).

Right now it is 36, bit 2 and bit 5 should be able to control it (HIM and 20-COMM-R) The HIM can stop and start it when I have bit 2 turned on in the Logic Mask. The DPI port does appear to jive with the 20-COMM-R as port 5. When I unplug the blue hose, the network error points to DPI port 5.

The tech is swapping the unit now...I am expecting the same result but with all new parts.

I sure don't like being stumped like this...thanks for the help so far.

I did find that some of the bits in the feedback word seem to change. Word 1 bit 11 follows the stop button on the HIM (0=pressed). Word 1 bit 1 turns on when the SMC is running (from the HOA switch hard wired to the terminal strip).

I may try wiring it just like your example to rule out the possiblity the numbers on the wires at the starter don't jive with those on the HOA switch, but we checked with a voltmeter that the terminals should be powered as needed for network control and she still don't wanna run.

Word one of the feedback is supposed to be current in phase A, but that is not what I am seeing.

PAUL:
Dumb question is your SMC energized ??

OkiePC said:

Okay, so the 2nd word of feedback, which is supposedly always current from Phase A, changes when the stop signal is asserted from the HIM and it changes when the SMC is running. So something is fishy here. This is a module defined data type for the DHRIO card called "AB:RIO_2IOGROUP:I:0" and it worked with the SMC dialog...

Okay I surrender trying to solve the mystery, I just want the darn thing to run now, time to swap in the other starter...

Click to expand...

Haven't tried the SMC with Remote IO on ControlLogix but with a PLC5, the 2nd word is the control and status.

OkiePC said:

...They used 82 ohm termination on the blue hose...is that right for 57.6k with 1756-DHRIO?

Click to expand...

That depends. The default for 57.6k baud is actually 150 ohm resistors. You would only use 82 ohm resistors when using 230.4k baud or if using Extended Node capabilities, but every node must have this capability before doing so.

Widelto,

Yes, as per the Technote, voltage must be applied to terminals 16 and 18 before attempting to start from the network and by the way...there is no such thing as a dumb question in these situations!

dmargineau said:

Maybe one of the HIMs has an issue: I'd try P87 = 32

Click to expand...

That's possible. The Logic Mask does not really matter, as long as you have a mask value set that allows the DSI card command the Starter. But even if the HIMs are masked off their Stop assertions can still inhibit the DSI card from issuing a Start Command. As too could a faulty HIM. The fault bit 7 being constantly on is a concern?

Paul,

You could mask the HIMs off, as dmargineau suggests, with 32, but also physically remove them as well. Once masked off they can be removed without a comms loss fault. Just something else to try if the replacement doesn't come good.

Also while we're waiting...

OkiePC said:

...This is a module defined data type for the DHRIO card called "AB:RIO_2IOGROUP:I:0"

Click to expand...

OK, that's the module defined data type for the DHRIO card, but can you explain what I/O Configuration you've got under the Channel on the card to the 20-COMM-R adapter? There should be a "RIO-ADAPTER - Generic Remote I/O Adapter" configured for 1/4 Rack, Octal Rack 3, Group 0?

G.

Okay, which bits do I need in what pattern in word one to issue a run command?

I tried turning on each bit in word one, but one at a time. Do I need to set up some logic to cycle through all possible combinations and watch for it to run?

I recall once having to use such a method with a barcode scanner because the manual was utter lies, but this is a long time A/B product! Shirley if the manual says control is word zero, then it's word zero!

Offline I deleted the module from the I/O tree and added it back in. I need to wait for other parts of the equipment to be caught up before I can download. But it automatically chose the same module defined data type for me so I suspect this will make no difference at all.

And, the new starter, new RIO module, new ribbon cable, same symptoms.

The download of identical settings proved predictably futile.

Punt.

I am not allowed to open panels, or even turn on and off disconnects in this facility so I am punting for the night. And my electrician who was allowed and doing all the touching for me had to leave.

What should take two hours will take three days.

I am calling in the big guns tomorrow. On Site support. It is a big customer and I have only spun my wheels all day.

DaveW said:

Haven't tried the SMC with Remote IO on ControlLogix but with a PLC5, the 2nd word is the control and status.

Click to expand...

Shirley DaveW was right. I Shirley and for shore tried this yesterday, but today it works. Shirley Allen Bradley will amend their manuals within days and no one will ever have to guess at this again.

Word zero means ???
Word one was where the control and feedback come in.

I am certain I tried this yesterday before lunch yesterday, but I did say an earnest prayer today and no she is running.

Okay, if there is a start input turned on (terminal point 17) then forget about starting it via DPI port. This must be why my bit diddling never got me anywhere yesterday. We did some more trials and nailed down the details.

I am about to put a bow on this one. It is sad that I look like more of a hero because I struggled so long with this than if I had fixed it in 30 minutes like I feel I should have...