Remote power wires color switched

The latest NEC code book says that all wires fed from a source other than the local panel disconnect must be orange. It used to say orange OR yellow and for years the convention was yellow. Orange was always 24 vac.

Seems like switching the colors now only generates confusion and doesn't really serve any useful purpose. Is there anybody here "in the know" who knows why the change was made?

I don't like to even see interconnects between panels unless there is no other way
when they are used they should be yellow or orange and terminate in a separate terminal block. they also require a label on the panel stating power comes from multiple sources, but its rare to see that and I have seen many electricians get in trouble by not realizing that there are multiple power sources.
with the new safety PLC I/O use them, inputs and outputs in each panel that way there is no power connection between panels and the interconnection is still confirmed

In the UK , the general convention for panel wiring has been :-

AC Power wiring - Black ( Including Neutral )

AC Control wiring Over 50V - Red

AC Control wiring Under 50V - Yellow

AC Control wiring 0V - Grey

DC Control wiring + - Blue or Dark Blue

DC Control wiring 0V - Blue/White Stripe , Light Blue or White

WIRING NOT ISOLATED IN THE PANEL - ORANGE

As you can see , there are some differences for DC wiring .



It might be some harmonisation going on between the different Standards in various countries . Not a bad idea considering the export / import of machinery between countries . On the other hand, I could well be wrong .

Paul

FactoryTalktotheHand said:

The latest NEC code book says that all wires fed from a source other than the local panel disconnect must be orange. It used to say orange OR yellow and for years the convention was yellow. Orange was always 24 vac.

Seems like switching the colors now only generates confusion and doesn't really serve any useful purpose. Is there anybody here "in the know" who knows why the change was made?

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NEC??? I just looked at the 2015, I don't see the words "orange" OR "yellow" used with regard to conductors, other than orange being required for high-leg delta systems and for heating cables.

Might you perhaps be thinking of NFPA79 for industrial machinery? That has said orange or yellow for ungrounded circuits that are not de-energized by a main disconnect since 2002. Before that is was yellow from the old JIC standards that became NFPA79, but it appears they added orange because an IEC regulation (IEC 60204-1) requires orange, so they made the NFPA79 allow for either color in 2002. Now it appears that under the auspices of further "harmonization" with IEC, which they announced several years ago, they have completely switched to orange only in the 2015 edition.

Just FYI, you will see a lot of this coming up in the near future so get used to it. UL is changing as well to a new set of standards that are "harmonized" to IEC, including what we now know as UL508A. Also, we will begin seeing the IEC machine safety standards (SIL and pL ratings) imposed on us as well, either through NFPA79 or possibly OSHA. We've been a little loosey-goosey about that for a long time now with it being a generalized concept within OSHA that is not delineated as it is in IEC world. The word is that the new safety regs will be imposed in the food processing machinery industry first, because that's a big source of willful neglect.

hey you just answered a question I've had for years. I bought a copy of NFPA 79 a few years ago and I read that these interconnecting wires had to be orange and I said WTF. Every application I have seen that was professional produced used yellow wires. Now I know why. Thanks

IIRC NFPA79 went to Orange and removed Orange or Yellow in the 2007 edition I think.

I still see lots of panel builders using Yellow though even today.

I agree with you GaryS interconnects of power need a little more thought for safety in most cases. I use a sign inside and outside the panel and put the interconnect terminals on their own strip if possible and I try to use Orange terminal blocks for that purpose also.

I also try to avoid power interconnects if possible in favor of network options.

I also like to use a demarcation panel to do interconnects if I can't do them with a network option such as having the wiring from each panel go to a small demarcation panel and we use panels that are factory Orange from Hoffman.

PBuchanan said:

IIRC NFPA79 went to Orange and removed Orange or Yellow in the 2007 edition I think....

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My 2012 edition still says Orange or Yellow. It just changed in the 2015.

In sweden (europe) we have green-yellow protective earth. And to not allow confusion we are not allowed to use either green or yellow. This is a VERY good idea in my opinion. The protective earth is the most important wire and to allow confusion using bare yellow or green is in my opinion not that good.

rQx said:

In sweden (europe) we have green-yellow protective earth. And to not allow confusion we are not allowed to use either green or yellow. This is a VERY good idea in my opinion. The protective earth is the most important wire and to allow confusion using bare yellow or green is in my opinion not that good.

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SO let me get this straight. Not only do you have to use special multicolored wire (special = expensive) but you can't use green or yellow for anything?

I hope that doesn't become part of the international standard that the USA seems to be switching to.

GlenGineer said:

SO let me get this straight. Not only do you have to use special multicolored wire (special = expensive) but you can't use green or yellow for anything?

I hope that doesn't become part of the international standard that the USA seems to be switching to.

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It already is. Green/yellow wire is not special or extra expensive any more because of this. And we already had green set aside for ground anyway, all they did was make green/yellow acceptable as well.

Just remember - all the machinery in the field you will get called to is over 20 years old & (hopefully) conforms to the old standard.

I work on a lot of stamping presses and it appears to be the norm in that industry for the press & feedline manufacturers to use yellow wire for all interlocks between machines; where the voltage supplied by another machine is unknown (could be 5, 12, 24, 45, 90, 120 or 240 - could be AC or DC). And some of them use yellow/green for ground at the same time.

GlenGineer said:

SO let me get this straight. Not only do you have to use special multicolored wire (special = expensive) but you can't use green or yellow for anything?

I hope that doesn't become part of the international standard that the USA seems to be switching to.

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It's not special since all the protective earth is in this color and it is exactly the same price. It's the only color allowed for protective earth.

Since the protective earth is the most important wire of them all it is good not to have them confused with other wires just because "I want to use yellow or green"

What motivates your strong belief that you have to use yellow or green? There is many other colors to choose from.

Yellow/Green is standard in Aus/NZ as well, and has been for years. Looks like it's just the USA being different again *coughfahrenheitcough*

rQx said:

What motivates your strong belief that you have to use yellow or green? There is many other colors to choose from.

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For 460 VAC wiring my company and several others I have worked for use Brown-Orange-Yellow as three wire colors for 460 VAC. Using Yellow or Orange as interconnecting wires is already confusing. If suddenly yellow becomes taboo because it might be confused with the ground wire (earth wire) well that disturbs the whole system.

Part of it has to do with my world view. Some people think we should all follow an international standards. I am not sure we should submit even to national standards as each state in the united states should have standards of their own. Its complex and perhaps similar to the reason England no longer wants to be in the EU.

Just my point of view.