Siemens software version compatibility

Hi all,
I have a cpu313c on a site and tp1200 comfort hmi. I am an Omron user, so this is all new to me. I originally had TIA portal v12 on my laptop with the 30day trial licence, to make some small changes to the existing unprotected program on both the HMI and CPU. This did not go so well, as through the MPI interface I could detect the cpu and hmi but could not connect to either, as I am guessing because my step7 was basic, it was not compatible with 300 series CPUs. who knows why I could not upload from HMI. Anyway, fast forward to now I have borrowed another sparky friends laptop with latest TIA v13 pro on it. Still no joy - could not upload hardware config because program was created with earlier version of step 7 and in the HMI for some reason when I try to upload it just states 'upload cancelled'
So... for clarity's sake, how particular is step 7 with versions? Is there a +/- a few version tolerance for uploading or does it have to be opened with the EXACT version of step 7, and any clues on uploading from HMI?
Comms are MPI for CPU, and PN for HMI. can go online with both.
After using Omron I find this quite a drama..... Am still smiling, but starting to wonder what those Euro folks were thinking.

Are you sure the 313C was programmed in TIA? Only the newer versions are to my knowledge. Maybe you need Simatic Manager.

The HMI comfort, needs the comfort plugin for TIA, did you have that installed?

First of all, I don't think you can usually upload anything from the HMI. It allows you to go online, which may offer a tiny amount of diagnostics, but there isn't actually anything you can DO while online with a comfort panel.

2nd, regarding the version compatibility:
With old step 7/Simatic Manager/"Classic", it was pretty forgiving on versions. You could go upload/download from devices that were programmed with much older software. However, they changed major revisions much slower. I think iIt took around 10 years to go from 5.4 to 5.5.

With Portal, everything is still in flux. They've gone from V11 to V12 to V13 in probably 5 years. Hopefully things will settle down, but the save file formats and everything are changing every version. I prefer using V13 to V5.5, but you are correct, there are some gotchas with the ability to go online with PLCs that were programmed with older software versions.

As far as I know, each version of Portal can open projects from one version ago (V13 can open V12, etc), and can migrate forward older projects. However, I've never gotten a clear definition about what you can do while online with PLC's that had been downloaded to from different versions.

The other thing is that you probably won't be very happy with the program you upload from an S7-300. It doesn't have tag names, comments, or anything useful that actually tells you what is going on. The newer PLC families, the 1200 & 1500 support that, but the older stuff probably never will.

Thanks for the replies,
First to Boneless yes I believe the comfort plugin is installed in TIA - In detailed info about installed software under support packages there is installed an 'HSP HMI comfort panels 1500, 1900, 2200. Although looking at the hardware it is a TP1200 - It does come up with the exact serial number of the harware if I add the HMI to a project though so I can only assume the plugin is there??
mK42; I was wondering about that - so the only way is to locate the original file and upload it then? I may be able to contact the vendor - what I was wanting to do was add an export to USB to create a .CSV file to USB at the end of a production day. ultimately maybe an OPC server, but first .CSV.
I saw the 'upload device as new station (harware and software)' option was solid in the menu and I thought I had it sorted but alas....
I had heard that there was one inconspicous check box when you download a project to enable project upload, but it's default is not checked?
Cheers

I am in the process of locating step7 v5.5 to give that a whirl on the trial licence. In the CPU I only wish to change a few timer values etc, but if I cant get the tag names/comments that may be difficult also? Hmmm. bite my tongue.

One more question, if I locate the original WinCC Flexible file (am guessing this is what is was written with if the CPU was programmed in step7 v5.5?) can I open a WinCC flexible file in TIA v13 SP1 professional? (provided I have the comfort plugin) and also I have been connecting to HMI direct with a standard patch lead via Profinet port on HMI to ethernet port on PC. I had to put a static IP in my PC with closer IP address and same subnet. Thanks in advance.
One more thing, if I cannot upload tags and comments from CPU would the way around this be to locate the original CPU file also? or is there a way to export/upload tags/comments? Are they only stored on the PC, and not in the CPU?

Resurgance said:

mK42; I was wondering about that - so the only way is to locate the original file and upload it then?

Click to expand...

This is the method that always works. Anything else is a maybe.

Resurgance said:

I saw the 'upload device as new station (harware and software)' option was solid in the menu and I thought I had it sorted but alas....

I had heard that there was one inconspicous check box when you download a project to enable project upload, but it's default is not checked?

Click to expand...

That is true, there is the backtransfer option in WinCC Flexible. I rarely see it used, because it usually requires a memory card in the panel as extra storage for the project. Usually, no one cares about the feature until the person with the project is long gone, and hasn't checked the box.

However, I've never seen this option anywhere for the Comfort panels. I'm not sure if the feature has a new name, or if it is no longer available.

If you have a WinCC Flex file, it may be upgradable to V13. I think only the most recent version or two of WinCC Flex is supported for migrations.

HOWEVER, the Comfort panels were never supported by WinCC Flex, they require WinCC Comfort (Portal).

For the S7-300 PLCs and v5.5, the tag information is never sent to the PLC, it is only stored on the PLC. Step 7 V13 supports tag data as part of the upload, but only for the newer 1200/1500 PLCs.

If you can get your hands on the CPU file, that will definitely be the best way to view the data.

OK great, the first part is getting the software sorted, then I can contact the vendor. There is a teleservice installed on in the cabinet, but the HMI is connected with Profibus, so the Vendor being 14hours flight away is unable to effect changes on the HMI. so the idea is I get my ducks in a row, then contact the vendor, we have talked about me administering changes and he is OK with that, I think he just left me to sort software to see if I was really up for it. Am thinking I may have my work cut out for me, I find Omron SOOOO much more intuitive and logical. But then again I am not German. Working there a decade and a half ago was a real eye opener. They definitely have a method.

Heh, good luck! I sometimes think the second system is harder to learn how to program than the first system. When I learned my first PLC, I usually knew what I didn't know. With the second one, I just assumed everything will be the same, and I kept programming myself into a corner, and then having to backtrack.

Aarggh first v13 told me the program I was uploading was created with an earlier version, so I just tried step v5.5 and it told me it was created with a later version.... which makes sense I guess as to program the comfort panel he would have had to have used a portal. So anyone got any ideas about version compatibility and exactly how many portal versions are there?

Mk42 I have another job coming up with micrologix 1100s hmm. Another method to learn too... I have heard that AB is pretty straightforward quirks aside. It seems to be from what I have seen more like omron and siemens is really just one out of the bag

Resurgance said:

Aarggh first v13 told me the program I was uploading was created with an earlier version, so I just tried step v5.5 and it told me it was created with a later version.... which makes sense I guess as to program the comfort panel he would have had to have used a portal. So anyone got any ideas about version compatibility and exactly how many portal versions are there?

Click to expand...

The first version of S7 in the Portal was 10.5, which only supported the 1200.

Versions that supported the 300:
V11
V11 SP1
V11 SP2
V12
V12 SP1
V13
V13 SP1

I don't know what the cross compatibility is. Some of the service packs even broke compatibility with their major version.

I found out that it was created with v11 sp2. But the vendor is currently using v13 sp1 so I have offered to upgrade it for him if he sends me the original files. Any idea what is involved in upgrading a v11 sp2 project to a v13 sp1 project? Is it a straight conversion or is there a whole lot of manual hardware configuration etc? Also I guess firmware update on cpu is involved etc.

I found the answer to my question above on the Siemens site. The v13 will automatically update a copy version of the original untouched file, then all that is needed is a complete compile and download. The info I read was about the hmi and I did not see any info on doing the same on a cpu, but I can only assume it is similar. Maybe a firmware update will be necessary for cpu? Anyway thanks for replies. Once I get original files I'll be learning all about the Siemens way....
When I went to Germany I spent 3 months in a fairly focused manor learning the language, then when I turned up near Stuttgart they all spoke swabish a fairly different dialect and my 'Oxford' German was not much use. I sort of wonder if I should not take the above approach with Siemens and just learn on the job rather than putting too much effort in before I have hardware/software talking