liability insurance for PLC programmers

This question is mostly for people in my area Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Where can I find an insurance company willing to insure automation technicians/PLC programmers. When I first opened my company back in '98 I was with Lloyd's of London. 1 million coverage for about $1900. They got out of the professional liability cover about 3 years ago. I've gone through every possible channel and have had little success. I've never had a claim and I've been working in this field for 20 years. I also have the educational background. If anyone can give me an idea where to find insurance it would be greatly appreciated.

The problem with your insurance maybe the lack of expierance by the various brokerage houses with your line of work. Another issue is that the rate you stated, $1,900.00 per $1,000,000.00 (CA funds) leaves little for the agent to get a worthy comission from the carrier.

I would suggest trying the larger brokerage firms. You may raise intrest by offering to place all of your insurance needs with one agency.

Just my thoughts on the subject....

Mike.

I admit I don't really know anything about CA's legal system, but for $1900 hire a lawyer to setup your company to be better insulated from liability. Here in the US the right combination of LLP's LLC's and S corps can make liability insurance a non-issue, though maybe not so ethical...

Many customers require proof of liability insurance, before they will
let you do any work for them.



Ken

My $1,000,000/$2,000,000 liability insurance runs about $350.00 USD, of which a good chunk of it is a no fault clause, where if anyone clains I did (or didn't) do something, it will pay them up to $x,000. this includes all types of stuph. like spilling coffee on the carpet.

Locally, any insurance agent has liability. I have never been asked about it in any of the engineering projects that I've done, going back to 70's.

regards......casey

BTW - This has been discussed several times before, a search may provide useful info. I think $1900 Canadian is a BIT HIGH, but then, I've never bought Canadian Insurance. I did work for General Motors in London, Ontario between 1996-98 without insurance, and it was never requested.

Our three greatest expenses are Payroll, Benifits, and Insurance. in that order. Back in the Late 80's we paid about $200,000.00 for $1,500,000.00 of coverage. (no I did not typo here). We have very good expierance for our industry, but get dragged into a lot of cases for minor issues. We've learnd to send out a lot of CYA letters that eventually really helped bring down our exposure. We also have a agreement to use the same attorney, (my pick) on all cases so I dont have to retrain two new attorneys a year. Hard work on this issue has cut our rates by about 60% since I've been running the show.

You dont know anything about insurance until you've been in the elevator busniess...

Once I realized that getting insurance was going to be an issue I asked my lawyer to set-up a disclaimer for me. Work orders, invoices and estimates all have the disclaimer and need to be signed before I start any work. It basically limits the amount of money a customer can claim if I cause damage. This unfortunately doesn't help me with customers that require me to have coverage to work in their plants. After speaking with people in my field (in my area) I noticed that most do not have insurance and the ones that do have do not specify that they do PLC programming. They have insurance for control wiring and general electrical work not PLC programming. Of course this lets them get in the door to work but if they have a problem their insurance will not cover the damage if it's PLC related.

I would think that you would want to be fully insured for your own protection. I dont know if "PLC programming" by it's self is actually defined by the insurance companies. However "control system design and assembly" (which would encompas programming) is. You might have to define what typs of systems your involved in so they can asess, or determine risk.

I have been in business more or less for the last 10 years. I have not dealt with any Fortune 500 company that didnt require 1,000,000 in liability PLUS proof of workmen's compensation insurance.

Last 2 companies I was employed at required the liability insurance. Its a lawsuit waiting to happen world out there, everyone wants to know they can collect if they are damaged.

I also had to be BONDED to work at several companies which is a separate issue from liability or comp insurance, the bond is more or less a guarantee you wont walk off with something of value.

Thats right Ron!

It's all the un-fun side or the busniess, General Liability Insurance, Workemens Comp & Auto insurance, various riders for other specifics required by customers, Cirtificates of Ins nameing the customer as an "additional insured".

Now is your insurance a "Claims made" policy. For example you do a job last year under one carrier, but you get sued this year under a different carrier. (who insures you?)

Oh Yea.. Then theres Bonding!

1) Bid Bond (are you actually going to sign the contract if your the lowest bidder?)
2)Performance Bond to pay your competetor to finish the job if you dont.
3) Honesty Bond, (they call it something else but I cant think of it right now), Are you going to steal from your customer?
4) Payment Bond, to make sure you pay YOUR vendors so they cant lien the customer.

The list goes on and on....

If your really serious get one agent to deal with all your needs so you can focus on your actual job.

Too much fun for me....

Correct me if I am wrong, but in Ontario I am insured for personal liability in my field of expertise (PLC Programmer)associated with OACETT as a CET. Your company should carry carry insurance for your business liability (ie employees if they do not carry individual policies). Look at the OACETT website for more information. I am sure that Quebec has it's own version of OACETT.

Any recommended sources of liability insurance??

Does anyone have any experience with specific liability insurance providers? Anybody use one of the online internet companies? Specifically interested in the USA, more specifically California. Price/performance info/experience would be very helpful.

I have only dealt with real people.

I suppose that you can find a god insurance company on line at a cheaper price, but is it easy to contact them?

I probably wouldn't be comfortable myself, as I usually need a copy of insurance or bond sent out "immediately" several times a year. I can call or walk in and get sudden service. I pay about $40 per month for insurance, and $50 per bond, typically. I don't think I would beat this online by much and get the same service.

regards.......casey