How do you agree HMI layouts at quote stage?

Hi all,

I am interested to know how people nail down a customer to a HMI layout during the quotation stage of a potential job?

In the past I have given customers a "general layout" indication and said that we will design the final HMI layout during programming, send it to them for approval and then make changes as required. Once these changes are made it is final.

But I have had a couple of situations where the customer has asked for 2-3 major re-designs of the layout during the programming. The problem is they are big projects over all, but the PLC aspect of it is quite small, so seeing as it is a big project upsetting the customer by saying we are refusing to change it isn't really an option.

How do people avoid having to re-design the HMI layout multiple times?

Thanks,

Well, you seem to say yourself that you dont want to upset the customer, even if there is no agreement that have last-say in the HMI design. If you dont want to upset the customer then what is there to discuss. Only thing you can do is to inform the customer as early as possible about how your design is, and beg them to accept it as it is.

We would just be firm, and if there is no functionally wrong with our design, refuse to accept to have to do a major change. Small things we will do to accomodate the customer, but big things no.

If you are willing to accept just one redesign, you can inform the customer that you will do so at no cost and no delay to the project, not because they have last say but because you want to keep the good-will. And then inform at the same time that at a certain date you want their final input to the design. After that date any changes will incur extra costs and/or delays.

We run into this fairly often also. We tend to just consider it one of the costs of doing business when designing custom machinery. However, we do use the threat of project delay when this comes up and it is usually the truth.

Tell the customer that you have planned for and allocated X number of hours for the initial design and one modification session after review of their HMI, just like you have for the 5 other active projects you have going at the same time. Anything outside of those two efforts WILL affect delivery by an indeterminate amount of time. You can't be expected to drop another customer's project because this customer can't make up their mind. Since all your time is already slotted there are no available resource hours to make the changes they want.

We are all busy and tend to be scheduled to the edge of our long-term capacity. Most people will understand when you tell them there just isn't any available time to do what they ask if it is outside the schedule.

Keith

You'll be doing work possibly for nothing if you do HMI layouts before an order. I imagine you re-use a lot of layouts, can you not show them a similar project so they have an idea of what they are likely to get? Or ask them if they have an in house style/standard screens which you must replicate.

If you've been through both of those processes any major re-designs should be considered only with a variation order.

You could always include some meetings to sort out the HMI layouts, though this only works well if someone can sketch layouts quickly on a whiteboard.

I tend to stave off major design changes by creating an example screen set very early in the project, which might include only the major customer facing screens. They probably wont work that well, and are slightly scruffy compared to the final version, but good enough for a general design theme.

Later on in the project, a full set of screens without any parameter pages filled in ("This is a parameter" everywhere) and only the major animations working would be produced for final review.

The final HMI would be sent for error checking and any slight tweaks accommodated.

The next trick is to set project deadlines for reviews to be returned, with automatic approval granted if a review is not returned on time. Change orders are required for any further changes, and change orders have to be quoted against for time and cost impact. Suddenly the customers are very keen on getting the HMI design nailed down early in the project

After all that, well additional changes = more money for you.

I think the biggest way to help yourself is to have a 'standard' method/philosophy when it comes to HMI design. At the quoting stage include screen shots of multiple past projects so they get a feel for it, and explain in detail certain characteristics of the HMI. Show what motors and valves look like in running, stopped, faulted, manual states. Show general navigation strategies, show device faceplates. Show alarm summary.

Obviously easier to create and maintain a standard via the industry you are in, but if you cross-over, or supply very small to very large systems it's a bit more difficult to have a 'standard'.

During the quoting stage, state changes to the HMI/SCADA standard can be considered if the client supplies a formal HMI design specification document for review. Otherwise your company 'standard' will be followed, and your company will have the discretion to create/modify/change any areas which may not be completely defined at the quoting stage.

Any modifications during the project which aren't required to ensure functional operation of the project scope will be considered a change order and will have cost and schedule impact.

I'll make changes during a project if the customer has a good idea, or obvious need that hadn't been considered prior, and that can be implemented in under an hour. I'll also use HMI changes as leverage in a project. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" type of thing.

When this happens on big jobs, or jobs almost complete that would require almost a complete rewrite:

Require a written Engineering Change Form completed listing every item to be changed in detail & a PO to cover the engineering changes, with a statement of the time delay added due to the engineering change.

I actually have this sign over my desk:

I have a standard layout I submit along with the quote so they have an idea how things work. If they want to make changes, they need to do it before I get everything finished. Minor things I will do no charge. generally if it takes me more than four hours, I'll need compensation.

More often than not I still end up doing it for free because this industry can sometimes be filled with ********.