RS485 cable screen

DLMUK

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Join Date
Jun 2013
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Southampton
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311
Hi,

How do people terminate cable screens on RS485?

I've been reading around and people seem to do various things. A few people have said you shouldn't terminate the screen of more than one device on the network as it would cause ground loops. Is this the case?

I thought grounding multiple devices on a ring would cause ground loops rather than screens?

We have a situation at the moment which has recently arisen where we have two RS485 RTUs situated on a crane, every time the vertical hoist motor is operated it kicks the RTUs off for about 1s and then they come back on but the motor can carry on running. I assume this is because when the motor starts it has its highest current draw to initially get moving.

At present the RTUs are individually wired from the bucket on the crane to a big JB and into terminal blocks. Out of those terminal blocks along another cable for about 10ft and then into some more terminal blocks. Then out of those terminal blocks for about 20cm and into a NI RS485/USB box. Each RTU has its own cable so effectively 1 node on the network.

The screens for both cables go to the same earthing point in both junction boxes, would this be likely to cause problems? I expect there are also screens from other items, like the hoist motor in the same blocks, but I haven't had chance to check yet.

At the moment there are no termination resistors. If I cannot find out the characteristic impedance of the cable from the supplier, would you put two 120ohm resistors in or could this potentially make the problems worse?

Thanks,
 
These are the exact places I have been reading. I was just after what people have actually done with their real life installations...

What does the RTU manual say, different manufacturers have a different take on it, i have manuals for power meters, protection relays and PLC's that all give a different recommendation for grounding.

What you may be experiencing is not really an RS485 issue per se but more of an EMI one that would effect any number of systems as you have pointed out with hight current inrush, you may well find shielding does not fix it and only physical separation will.
 
Hi,

How do people terminate cable screens on RS485?

I've been reading around and people seem to do various things. A few people have said you shouldn't terminate the screen of more than one device on the network as it would cause ground loops. Is this the case?

I thought grounding multiple devices on a ring would cause ground loops rather than screens?

We have a situation at the moment which has recently arisen where we have two RS485 RTUs situated on a crane, every time the vertical hoist motor is operated it kicks the RTUs off for about 1s and then they come back on but the motor can carry on running. I assume this is because when the motor starts it has its highest current draw to initially get moving.

At present the RTUs are individually wired from the bucket on the crane to a big JB and into terminal blocks. Out of those terminal blocks along another cable for about 10ft and then into some more terminal blocks. Then out of those terminal blocks for about 20cm and into a NI RS485/USB box. Each RTU has its own cable so effectively 1 node on the network.

The screens for both cables go to the same earthing point in both junction boxes, would this be likely to cause problems? I expect there are also screens from other items, like the hoist motor in the same blocks, but I haven't had chance to check yet.

At the moment there are no termination resistors. If I cannot find out the characteristic impedance of the cable from the supplier, would you put two 120ohm resistors in or could this potentially make the problems worse?

Thanks,

I don't have a lot of long RS485 runs but I've never had a problem using a foil shielded cable and grounding on one end only. I don't run many large drives though. If I had to, I'd step the cable up to a braided + foil shield.

Do you have access to a scope? It would be worth looking at what's going on.
 
There should be no problem joining the RS485 cable screens in one terminal block but I'd definitely keep this connection clear of any hoist motor wiring and terminations.

Single ended earthing is another definite unless you have certainty there is a good separate earth connection between each end of your cable. Even then I'd only connect one end. As mentioned above, double screening is a good solution for long or noisy runs. Earth unused conductors too if you have any.

Termination resistors shouldn't make things worse. People often fit them or remove them to see if they fix a problem rather than do any science...

On a different tack, could it be the starting spike is actually dropping supply voltage? An unlikely long shot perhaps but you could temporarily hook up a separate supply to the RS485 controllers to exclude it.
 
My £0.02
Earth are both ends if both devices' grounds are the same potential. For me this translates to both in the same panel bolted the the same galvanised backplate. Ground only at source only otherwise.
Contact with the cable's screen needs to be a 360 degree wrap. A screen twisted to a pigtail and poked in a terminal does nothing. Use braid to earth it.
Is the hoist inverter driven? Use specific inverter cable not SY. 360 degree wrap again on the screen. Emc gland at motor terminal box.
Pp
 

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