Licensed Electrician question

As far as system integration goes, do you "legally" need to be a licensed electrician? At which point in your scope of work in the industrial automation world would one need to be licensed? What can't an unlicensed integrator scope entail?

I'm sure a lot varies from state to state but I'm just looking for a generic basic answer here. Thanks.

Were I live now to build equipment used within your company you need to be at the Journeyman level, however the authorities know my work and know that I have an outside company that will vouch for me and inspect what I build they are okay that I carry a license that doesn't qualify me for that type of work. In several other states I have worked in no license was needed for in-house work. If this piece of equipment is being sold or used off-site where others have access to it, it would require a license for your company to not be liable as a general rule, to the best of my knowledge.

From what I've been reading, it looks like a lot of states have industrial or OEM exceptions laws.

I'm trying to find more information on Ohio and Michigan.. not having much luck. If anyone runs across any links, post them. Thanks

I asked this same question to the electrician we contract to do work for us. I design and build control systems for our equipment. I do everything from start to finish.
From what our electrician tells me it is totally legal for me to do every bit of what I am doing so long as someone licensed is the one who actually puts power to it when commissioning.

Regards,
Dave

dploof23 said:

I asked this same question to the electrician we contract to do work for us. I design and build control systems for our equipment. I do everything from start to finish.
From what our electrician tells me it is totally legal for me to do every bit of what I am doing so long as someone licensed is the one who actually puts power to it when commissioning.

Regards,
Dave

Click to expand...

That is the most common industrial/manufacturing exception most states adopt. I do the same thing as you plus small low voltage conduit runs to power some remote I/O and all that...

As far as I can tell I'm legal in most of the states I do work in. A lot of states spell their electrical exceptions out really well on their government websites.. I just cant find ANYTHING on Ohio. I have no idea what I can or cannot "legally" do

IANAL:
In general laws only tell us what we "may not" do. So if there is no law prohibiting something it is "Legal" to do.

We are an OEM.

I do the panels, low voltage, hi voltage, programming, (it's idec, not really programming per se).

The only inspection ever needed was a pre CSA for entry into Canada.
I think we have to do the same thing when one goes to europe as well. Haven't built one of those yet.

In 35 years as an industrial electrician (worked several large facilities), as long as we were NOT adding load to the system ( ie new load/MCC center), we could do practically anything we wanted. I have never had a Journeyman's license, and one was never required.Practiced alot of electrical stuff though

It mostly depends on the company's requirements. Usually it helps a little on the insurance if you can throw down a license when adding a machine or a new production line.

General rule of thumb: If you need to obtain a permit from any governmental body, the work for which you need the permit will have to be performed by someone with a license.

Yup

Steve's right.

Same here.

I've worked as a "Journeyman Electrician" in sawmills for the last 4 years. I got hired based on my knowledge and skill, and having completed an AA degree in Electrical Power and Process Automation from a state funded technical school. I worked my way up passing all of our internal "journeyman" tests to top out at a level II. a few years ago, I decided for nothing more than personal enrichment, I wanted to be a licensed electrician. 07 (non residential maintenance here is Washington) General journeyman (01) requires atleast 2 years of NEW commercial or industrial installations.

Long story short, called L&I and asked what I had to do. She said get 2 years experience under a licensed journeyman 07 or 01 and then come back and you can take the test. I waited 2 years, went to take the test and they asked what my trainee card number was. I said what trainee card? Turns out, since I didn't pay the 40$ online 2 years ago to obtain a card, my hours wouldn't count. I had thought industrial was the "exception" to the rule, but after much back and forth with L&I (you can never win, and any attempt seems futile) I found the code references in the WAC that simply states it is illegal to work with any electricity without either a trainee card or a journeyman card of some sort. I looked and looked, it wasn't easy to find. It had to be pointed out to me.

I think this largely gets brushed aside without consequence as I've worked for companies who have had no "licensed" electricians at all and don't seem to have any problems. and some of the best electricians I've worked with had no state certification. Oregon however, is a completely different game it appears.

I was actually pretty furious at how I was able to get as far as I did, especially in ONE of the most dangerous environments for electricians.. an OLD OLD sawmill that had many "hands in the pot" over the years. When I started it was basically "you're up, Im off. Keep it running and don't get hurt". I had no business working by myself at that time.

Then to listen to L&I tell me I was an "Illegal Electrician" and "unvalid".. even though I had 5 years experience, an AA degree in Electrical Power from a STATE FUNDED technical college, and my classification was a Journeyman electrician II in our IBEW represented contract with the company.. still gets under my skin. That company has since shut down, and I am now an 07 "trainee".

Anyhow.. <End Rant> just be careful, as it seems you can slip through the cracks.

depends on state

I have never had or needed a license in 40 years. But I am a journeyman industrial control electrician that completed a certified apprenticeship. I only time license came up is when I applied for liability insurance, told insurance company that a license saw not required in my area, no problems. Most of the companies I did system integration work for it was only insurance they wanted for their insurance underwriters.

I did get written up once for disconnecting my meter and hooking the wire back up in a union plant once though because I wasn’t union.

http://www.necanet.org/professional...ing-requirements/state-electrical-regulations

I'm no expert, so don't take my word as gospel. As I understand it, in Ohio, there is no statewide licensing for journeyman electricians, only electrical contractors. Basically, you are "legal" if your employer designates you as being "qualified" and all that seems to mean is that you have taken and passed the OSHA required electrical safety training. As far as I know, there are no other specific requirements.