Training course advice for the real world

Hi all,

[Long message alert!]

I’m after some advice on training courses. I’d like to know what the general consensus is regarding the PLC programmer certification from Siemens is, mainly how relevant and worthwhile it is being ‘certified’ when looking for industrial automation jobs in the UK. Bearing in mind how expensive these courses are: after speaking to Siemens they are recommending two of their advanced programming courses and obviously the exam , so approx. £4000 worth of training!!

I don’t know whether to spend my money more broadly on some PLC training and a number of other automation courses such as CNC/Robotics / machinery Safety related or go all the way for programming certification.

Just to give you my background (and this isn’t my CV and I’m not trying to network here J) …. I have worked for the same manufacturing company for the last 25 years so don’t really know what to expect when I’ll be made redundant next year, hence why I’m asking for some real world advice! I’m an instrumentation and controls technician (HNC qualification in electrical/electronic engineering) and work on a daily basis with Siemens S300/400 processors along with WinCC [v6.0] (also Allen Bradley PLC 5/500/5000). My key role is more that of a reactive maintenance technician with some development and small scale projects using SCADA/PLC programming (I have a working knowledge of STL & SCL, indirect addressing and multi instance DB’s but I’m not expert level and we only have a limited range of hardware that is networked on profibus at work).

I’ll be looking for new work come May next year and I’m hoping to go more into the installation/programming /commissioning of factory automation systems rather than be bogged down with production based duties as I currently am.

Any advice on paths to pursue/ courses to take will be greatly appreciated, and thanks for taking the time to read my long message!

Cheers

I can't speak for the job market in the UK, but if it's anything like the pacific northwest of the estados unidos, you shouldn't have any problem landing a good job. I see a lot of "Entry" jobs into the more programming/commissioning/designing side of things because employers are starting to realize the limited candidate pool, and that they're better off investing in someone then waiting around and hoping someone comes along. As far as the certification, I looked into getting certified by Allen Bradley but found that, at least the places I was applying, it was more about whether or not you knew what you were doing, and less so having a piece of paper to back it up (that training wasn't cheap either). That being said, it would probably make you stand out more against the competition, if there is any.. I came from more of what you are doing now, on the maintenance side, and ended up finding an employer that was willing to invest time and money in training me to help me make the jump up after my previous employer shut down. Partly because I had the right base skills, such as you, and also partly because the candidate field was pretty limited.

Turns out I probably wasn't much help, but good luck finding a new gig. It sounds like you'd definitely be an asset to someone.

hi udtwmc,

Yes, that is correct. You have knowledge on PLCs (and SCADA?) and in theory, if you can use one, then it would not take long to start using other software, assuming you have the software and the kit to practice on.

Companies want to sell you their expensive software courses, but these may give you hands-on basics of saving, navigating etc, not quite real scenarios in my experience.

System Integrators look for experience with hands-on, and will not expect an engineer to know everything, but be able to suss things out...

There are jobs around - via Linkedin and Agencies are the ones that email and phone me, so do not despair!
Some manufacturers like us look for Control Engineers that can deal with old kit (PLC5/Siemens S5 etc etc ) as not everything is state-of-the-art here...

I'll have to agree with what the others have said, although I don't know much about the UK market.

In my area, the US, I'm not aware of a Siemens certification program for individuals. Most of the employers that I've seen look at experience, not paper credentials. The official classes can be hit or miss, and they really depend on your instructor whether they are useful or not. A lot of the material is designed for the lowest common denominator, and that sometimes drags the advanced students down. Not sure if the programming 2/3 courses have the same issues.

You have experience working with what I see as the majority of the equipment installed in the field. That sounds like a plus to me. An employer might be looking for people training in the brand newest PLCs (controllogix or 1500), but I'd argue that if you know two systems, you can learn more.

That said, if you're looking for new things to learn, I'd say the two biggest topics would either be safety or Ethernet networking. Most of the systems these days that I see have at least some basic safety PLCs, and having some familiarity with the safety standards could help. EthernetIP/Profinet allow for much more complicated networks than fieldbusses could. Taking a class can't launch you into being the EXPERT in one go, but automation networking is one of the big trends that I see, if you want to pick up a skill that will keep you relevant for the next decade.

I did the certified S7 programmer track, it is very useful, but like you said pricey.

Honestly, nobody has ever asked or commented on it, really. So since you already have experience, I would not pay the money myself. I would happily accept it from my boss .

That's very helpful chaps! thanks. You talk a lot of sense and have certainly helped me make a few decisions. I agree certification is nice to have but experience is far more sought after. At +£4k to get certification I think i'd be wiser to pepper a broader range of course so at least I have a basic understanding and can develop them further.

hope to see you out I the field sometime

Cheers

Think about revising that CV and preparing yourself for next year.

25 years is a long time in one company (I spent 20 years in one manufacturing company), but you should think long and hard about what will be relevant to other potential employers and include it in your CV.

When I sat down 6 years ago and revised my CV, I was pleasantly surprised at how many training courses/sessions I had actually had over the years and were relevant to my experience. You may or may not remember the dates or have certificates for the courses, but at least if you can state them - whether inhouse or external - then it all helps paint a picture of what your experience has been.

Other major projects you may have been involved in and what your role was - concept/design/install/commissioning/support - give a few words on each.
Any lone working (shifts)/teamworking (projects, 5S, plant improvements) that you can specify would help too...

CV writing can be complicated, but keep it to a couple of pages if possible, but start with an impact statement that summarises your working experiences in a paragraph.

Best of luck when it comes, and send us a draft CV.......