Do you also do robotics ?

Iner

Member
Join Date
Mar 2010
Location
France
Posts
190
Hello,

I joined a new company last year and what I noticed is that they are training automation people to do robotics.

I just completed my first project with two robots, also doing the automation and the safety. My opinion is that it is a lot more work, between programming the robots, optimizing the moves, doing all the simulation and checking the obstacles while also doing all of the automation...

From the company POV the advantage is obvious, give the same person more hours to do the job instead of allocating another person to do half of the job. The advantage is also that the programs are concepted by the same person and works together well.

However, robots specialists can optimize better and have a broader knowlegde and experience.

Is it a tend to train people in both fields? Does it exist also in your companies? What approach would you favour? Always use robots specialists or only for the harder/more complex process applications?
 
yes, robotic specialists are faster.

BUT, when the robot that was programmed by the specialist breaks down, how will you debug his code, or even understand what he did and why? call him at 2 am and ask him to hop on a plane that is an 8 hour flight, fix the issue, and return home (for example). in the meantime, your production is zero and the company is loosing money.

doing both jobs does take longer, the more you do with robotics, the faster you get.

You can then train others in the plant on what you did and why.
that way everyone knows your programming methods and how to trouble shoot the problem. less downtime, fewer calls at 2 am for help, less stress.

I am stating this based on past history.

james
 
Where I work, we are the end-users and we do pretty much all of our automation and robotics in-house.

That said, I do the PLC/HMI/Safety and integration development while another Engineer does the robotics development. Like you suggest, it's a little too much for only one person to do both, do them well, and then act as support from that point on.

The real issue I see is in how thoroughly a system is developed. If your company wants simple, basic systems that have little flexibility, one person can do it all. If, on the other hand, a deeper, flexible system can require two or more folks to do the job in a timely manner.
 
As a self employed integrator, I added robot programming to my skill list about ten years ago and it has help land some work that I normally wouldn't have access to. On small jobs, it saves the machine builder some money because he can use one guy to do both. Cheaper to send one guy when installing too.

I use the robot as a glorified servo; make a move and wait for the PLC to instruct to make another move. Lot easier making the decisions in ladder then in robot code.
 
It is a lot of work I agree, since I do the same for a machine builder/integrator.
This is what I love about it though, getting my hands on all aspects of the project. In my case most are machine tending or assembly machines not the most complicated applications, but yes, sometimes I do call in the robot manufacture for a few days when I know I need to.

They are good and fast of course but just make sure you understand how they are doing things because ultimately you are left to make it all operate properly.

I agree as others have said keep the robot simple. In some cases you can't but either way it doesn't bother me the robot program is one big macro program anyways in my world.
 
Does anybody actually do the trig, vector rotations and inverse kinematics?

Sometimes they do but usually no. A lot of the calculations are built in the modern robot controllers as functions and you don't have to know what is happening behind the scenes. But still if you have external data from many sources complex calculations is sometimes needed.

Our company also have specialist robot programmers. For the more complicated projects i would say that that is a must. You cannot gain the knowledge needed for complex projects if you have to to everything. For smaller projects and less demanding customers I know that there are companies that use one person for all programming (Servos,Vision,PLC,Robots etc) but they are more generalist than specialist and they cannot handle more complex tasks without help.
 
Sometimes they do but usually no. A lot of the calculations are built in the modern robot controllers as functions and you don't have to know what is happening behind the scenes. But still if you have external data from many sources complex calculations is sometimes needed.

Our company also have specialist robot programmers. For the more complicated projects i would say that that is a must. You cannot gain the knowledge needed for complex projects if you have to to everything. For smaller projects and less demanding customers I know that there are companies that use one person for all programming (Servos,Vision,PLC,Robots etc) but they are more generalist than specialist and they cannot handle more complex tasks without help.

Yes, I think that help is needed for more advanced features and more complex applications. Vision integrated with robots, several tracking of parts with advanced control of speed...

The question is: should a company develop its specialists in order to develop in-house the maximum of its abilities or train its employee to do the job for a particular project and get the help of the robot maker for the advanced feature if available.

Having one/several person for the PLC, then for the robots, then for the visions, then for the motion controls on the same project/machine seem like luxury financially speaking, but technically the optimization will be obviously better.
 
I work with a small company, we all do multiple things. While my main focus is PLC and other software programming, I also do some electrical work, testing, pre sales and after sales support. I'd like to learn robot programming myself but don't expect to have time for this in the near future. So far we have hired external experts for the few cases where we have included robots in client projects.
 
Yes, I think that help is needed for more advanced features and more complex applications. Vision integrated with robots, several tracking of parts with advanced control of speed...

The question is: should a company develop its specialists in order to develop in-house the maximum of its abilities or train its employee to do the job for a particular project and get the help of the robot maker for the advanced feature if available.

Having one/several person for the PLC, then for the robots, then for the visions, then for the motion controls on the same project/machine seem like luxury financially speaking, but technically the optimization will be obviously better.

Its an opportunity to train the employee and not have to be reliant on someone outside the company. Saves money in the long run and that employee now has exposure to something new that will adds to his/her personal skill list. I can't thing of an instance where this was the wrong approach.
 
Does anybody actually do the trig, vector rotations and inverse kinematics?

I did a course last year and it was very interesting, never imagined this much work went into this. Safe to say that the course was only one semester, so we just scratched the surface, never actually touched a robot. And by now everything is forgotten.

They do have a robotics course at the local vo-tech, which I am contemplating on taking.
 
I learned on my own. I wrote a 6DOF/Stewart Platform program for our controller.
Jacobians aren't needed for a Stewart Platform.

A robot with an upper and lower arm is easy. There is a perfect formula for that.

Scara robots are much more difficult but they are well documented and common.
This is a good place to start getting in to the nitty gritty with Jacobians.
Get some software like Mathematica or Maple to help with the math.

I haven't tried a delta robot yet. These are use for small pick and place. They are usually extremely fast but moving small parts where hydraulics aren't needed.
 
Its an opportunity to train the employee and not have to be reliant on someone outside the company. Saves money in the long run and that employee now has exposure to something new that will adds to his/her personal skill list. I can't thing of an instance where this was the wrong approach.

I think the problem comes when you have this extra skill set but no increase in wage.
 
Different topic. Whenever training was offered to me I jumped at it, that knowledge can't be taken away and can be leverage for wage negotiations.

Fair point, but how I interpreted the OP is they are now responsible for the extra task. I'll also assume management would expect installs to take the same amount of time as they did in the past. When it comes to HMI work or most work it isn't that its overtly hard it's time consuming.
 

Similar Topics

Hello PLCS.net! I'm about to program my first Robot soon! It's going to be a Fanuc. But wait, there's more! It's also going to be collaborative...
Replies
4
Views
3,303
We have a rotary keg line that processes about a keg every 45 seconds. Currently the loading and palletizing is a manual process that requires...
Replies
16
Views
4,547
This topic deserved to be a separate thread with and Advanced Control header. The first video was made from videos a couple of years back. You...
Replies
3
Views
1,491
Good Morning , Just curious , what is the cost of Fanuc Robotics RoboGuide Software ? Do they still allow that 3 month free trial ? Thanks ,
Replies
12
Views
10,333
Question. In the North Carolina, Virginia area who would be recommended as a high end robotics/ machine type builder, integrator? Capable of using...
Replies
2
Views
1,582
Back
Top Bottom