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Old November 22nd, 2005, 03:23 PM   #16
OkiePC
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This is one of the more complex addressing problems you will have to face ... Once you get through it, your confidence will rise. Don't have time to look at your details ... I'm getting ready for Thanksgiving maintenance in my plant. Maybe Friday or next Monday I can help you more if Ron hasn't got it knocked out by then.


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Old November 23rd, 2005, 06:07 AM   #17
Snide
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Thanks, it seems so confusing to me. I really could use the help.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 06:50 AM   #18
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Here is an example: http://domino.automation.rockwell.co...5?OpenDocument

When I learned block transfers it was with 6200 software on a PLC5. I did not think it was that hard to do, its just reading the info from the racks. Once you read the information it will be in an N register.

If the remote racks only have inputs then you just need to do a BTR. If they have in puts and outputs then you must use a BTR and BTW.

Each remote panel will need its own BTR/BTW.

Dont over complicate it by trying to get it all working at once...just use 1 input module like the NI4 and use something that will allow you to manually provide an analog reading. Here is an example of configuring the NI4
http://domino.automation.rockwell.co...6?OpenDocument

Once you see how it works with 1 device then you should understand the procedure.

If you use the AB knowledgebase use BTR, BTW and block transfer for keywords, do not try to select items from the list etc.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 08:01 AM   #19
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Maybe i don't understand the idea of transfers right...am i wrong in saying that you need a BTR for each device wired to the 1747 NI4?? I read that Rsdoran said..."Each remote panel will need its own BTR/BTW. "
Do you only need one BTR for one card not each device wired to the card?

I have two 1747 NI4 cards in two seperate panels, each one with 4 sensors on each of the cards. I thought you had to bring in the data (height of liquid)from the sensor and store the data in a B,F or N file then do the math from the sensor to calculate the volume of the tank, then do a BTR and store the anser in a B,F or N file again. so far i have broght in the data and stored each sensors data in seperate F files. then from that i do math to calculate the volume and I'm stuck there.

I have the feeling, I may be totally wrong about the process. Also, how do you know what type of slot addressing you should use like...1/2 slot, 1 slot etc.??

Thanks for the help...I wish the light would just come on and I would get this. I really do want to understand and it's driving me nuts.

Thank you to everyone who has replied. ~Amy
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 09:36 AM   #20
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I just found out i was thinking about the block transfer all wrong ...i think i get the idea now. i didn't know that you transfer the whole card not each connection(device). Still not sure about the rest yet...but i'm slowly getting it.


O.K. I have another question...when the data is transfered how do you get the data from the Block transfer so i can then do the math i need??

Thanks to everyone...I would still be beating my head on my desk.

Last edited by Snide; November 23rd, 2005 at 10:03 AM.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 10:01 AM   #21
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Here is another technote that may help.
http://domino.automation.rockwell.co...1?OpenDocument

This is an example of a 7 slot rack using half slot addressing which technically gives you 1.5 racks.
http://domino.automation.rockwell.co...5?OpenDocument

There are numerous technotes/examples at AB's knowledgebase. As I stated before I would try just setting up with nothing but the SN scanner, the remote rack and one module like the NI4 that you can apply a variable 4-20ma signal too. Once you see the data being manipulated then you will better understand. Then go a step further and add other cards.
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 10:38 AM   #22
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Greetings Snide,



we have issues with the information that youíve posted ...



first of all Iím very suspicious of the highlighted number below ...








basic idea: Groups usually (always?) start with even numbers such as 0, 2, 4, or 6 ... not with odd numbers like 3 ... please double check this number for us so that we may proceed with your project ...



next ... I donít see how you could possibly have three DIP switches all numbered ďSW1Ē on one ASB module ...






or were you attempting to show Switch #1 on each of three separate ASB modules? ... or ????? ...



but letís just assume (gosh I hate that word) that you Copy-and-Pasted and ended up with the triplicate SW1 numbers that way ... no matter how I try, I canít get the positions to work out right ... specifically, Iíve tried several ways to correlate the on/off patterns of the switches that you listed with ANY usable address for an SLC system ... basically it looks like a ďyou-canít-get-there-from-hereĒ situation ... please double check the switches and make sure that you have the on/off positions correctly recorded ...



Iíll be offline until Friday - but there are others on the forum who can help you with this project - IF (big IF) you give them ALL OF the information that they need ... if you keep working with PLCs, you will eventually learn that you canít set this type of stuff up on a ďthatís-close-enoughĒ basis ... in other words, if it ainít EXACTLY right, then it wonít work at all ...



I hope that everyone has a happy Thanksgiving ...



PS ... I wrote the above BEFORE I read your latest posts ... unfortunately I wonít have time to respond to anything in them until Friday ... Iíll print them out and look them over tomorrow ...



incidentally, as others have been trying to tell you, this is the deep end of the pool ... or at least one of many of the deep ends ...
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 11:23 AM   #23
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Yes I did have a typo- Group 3 should have been Group 0. Sorry about that. About the dip switch settings i got that from a drawing i have of the panels. I assuming now, that the drawings have a typo. I will find out. I did type them in order so maybe what you suggested is right. the remote panels are being built and are not in place yet. Plus, I'm located in Pittsburgh and the job I'm working on is 4 hours away. So getting information is sometimes a pain.

Again, thanks for everything. I think i'm starting to get somewhere with this project. ~amy
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 11:41 AM   #24
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just so that you'll know, there are THREE individual DIP switches on each ASB ... and each DIP switch has EIGHT sections ... we need to know ALL! twenty-four of those on/off settings in order to get this job done ... and they ALL! have to be exactly right ...

you really need to take a close look at those books that we linked earlier ... the pictures in the worksheets would help you understand the layout a lot better ...

got to go ... see you Friday ...
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Old November 23rd, 2005, 12:10 PM   #25
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You were right, I asked someone about the drawing and
the setting are


Dip switch settings...
SW1
1 Off
2 Off
3 Off
4 Off
5 On
6 Off
7 Off
8 Off

SW2
1 On
2 On
3 On
4 On
5 On
6 On
7 Off
8 On

SW3
1 Off
2 on
3 off
4 on
5 off
6 on
7 off
8 on

and the oter remote I/O dipswich settings are different.

Dip switch settings...
SW1
1 Off
2 Off
3 Off
4 Off
5 On
6 On
7 Off
8 On

SW2
1 On
2 On
3 On
4 On
5 On
6 On
7 Off
8 On

SW3
1 Off
2 on
3 off
4 on
5 off
6 off
7 off
8 on

I'm hoping this is what you were looking for. you have a good Thanksgiving too. amy
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Old November 25th, 2005, 12:02 PM   #26
Ron Beaufort
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Greetings Snide,



Iím afraid that Iíve reached the end of the line on this one ... specifically, I canít help you if you canít help yourself ... please take a look at page 4-2 in this manual for your 1747-ASB adapter (which Iíve recommended before) ... you will see how switches 1 through 6 on DIP SW1 must (I repeat MUST!) be set in order to work with your 1747-SN scanner module and your SLC-5/05 system ... I had to condense the chart to a size which will fit the forum, and Iíve made some highlights below for your reference ...








the 1747-ASB can be used with MANY different types of PLC systems ... but ... with the system that youíre working with, the ONLY valid rack assignments are circled in red ... and there are ONLY four valid combinations of switch settings - as Iíve highlighted in yellow ...



now then ... youíre telling me that your switches are set for a different pattern ... a pattern that WILL NOT work with your hardware ... so whatís wrong? ... here are some wild guesses ... maybe the person (engineer) who originally specified the settings got them wrong ... or maybe the person (installer) who physically set the switches got them wrong ... or maybe the person (draftsman) who drew the switches got them wrong ... or maybe the person (on the phone?) discussing the drawing with you is describing the settings wrong ... or maybe ... or maybe ... or maybe ...

well ... I can tell you one thing ... SOME body is going to have to get all 24 of those little DIP switches set up right before this system starts working ...

now Iím a strong and patient man - but I know when Iím beaten ... I give up on this one ...



after all that weíve been through already, you should have taken the personal initiative to double-check all of these DIP switch settings before you reposted them ... if you had, then you would have found that they do NOT correlate with your hardware ... more specifically, I shouldnít have to keep pointing out your typographical errors in one post after another ... I hate to sound brutal, but you shouldnít be making it so time-consuming for me (and others) to try to help you - especially since weíre trying to help you for free ...



now youíre probably a very nice person ... and Iím afraid that what Iíve said is going to hurt your feelings ... Iím sorry if that happens - because Iím basically a nice person too ...



in closing Iíll make one more offer ... if you want to send me a Private Message with your phone number, then Iíll give you a call Monday morning and try to talk you through some of this ... if you want to go that route, youíll need to be near the phone from about 9:00 to about noon ... Iíll be in and out Monday morning but I should be able to call sometime during that period ... I donít mind helping you solve this problem - but right now, Iím all typed out ... please note that we are now in post #26 of this thread - and weíre no closer to a solution than when we first started ... something has to change with the way weíre handling this ...



right now I have my student training lab set up with a spare SLC-5/05, a spare 1747-SN scanner, a spare 1747-ASB adapter, a spare 1746-NI4 module, and enough spare I/O modules to adequately duplicate your system ... the only things that I donít have available are the 1746sc-INI4i modules - but I doubt that weíll need those to solve your Block Transfer problem ... and incidentally, the ASB module has to be used on another project soon so itís only available through Tuesday of next week ... in other words, if this is going to happen, it needs to happen quick ...



anyway ... the stage is set ... now if I could just get an accurate rundown of how you actually want your system to be configured, then I could EASILY! knock out the Block Transfer rungs that you need for this project ... and post them on the forum ... with a nice red bow around them ... in plenty of time for Christmas ...



so thatís my offer ... regardless of whether you take me up on it or not, I sincerely wish you the best of luck ...

PS edit ... make CERTAIN about the addressing mode required for this system ... your latest post shows a 1/2-slot mode selection ... a one-slot mode is much more common ... my best guess is that the on/off settings for the "mode" DIP switches are reversed ... but then that's just a guess ...
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Last edited by Ron Beaufort; November 25th, 2005 at 12:14 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2005, 12:21 PM   #27
Ron Beaufort
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and one more thing that just occurred to me ... I donít want to make you paranoid, but is there a chance that someone (a supervisor perhaps) has thrown you into this deep end of the pool to see if you can sink or swim? ... as youíve probably realized by now, this is NOT a typical beginner project ... how much and what type of previous PLC experience do you have? ...



and one more straw to grasp at ... the distributor who sold you this equipment should have someone on staff who is capable of helping you with ALL of these settings ... you might want to explore that resource before you give up ...
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Old November 26th, 2005, 06:40 AM   #28
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Ron, you have the patience of a saint. I would have given up a long time ago. It appears this person just wants the answer without putting any effort forward. Sometimes you just have to read the f***ing manual. Some of the AB manuals and tech notes are not exactly intuitive, but they do usually have all the information you need to accomplish your objective.

I spent many years in the U.S. Navy, they donít train you on how to work on every possible piece of equipment in the fleet, they train you to RTFM. SoÖ when using something for the first time, thatís one of the first things I do.

So far I have never used a ďmatureĒ product from AB that didnít work correctly, just by following the instructions. The SLC/500 line has been around for years, and is definitely a mature product.

AnywayÖ
Keep up the good work Ron. Even though Iíve been using the AB line for many years I still get valuable information from your post. You understand the inner workings much better than anyone else Iíve ever encountered.
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Old November 26th, 2005, 03:59 PM   #29
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gosh! ... I love a challenge ...

while weíre waiting around, letís just play pretend ...



suppose that we have the following hardware arranged as shown ... and suppose that we set the DIP switches on the two 1747-ASB adapters as shown ...








and suppose that we set the configuration for the 1747-SN/B scanner as shown here ...








and suppose that we program the following Block Transfer rungs ...







then the addresses of the 1746-NI4 analog input module in slot ďLĒ would be as follows:



Quote:
Channel 0 = N11:0

Channel 1 = N11:1

Channel 2 = N11:2

Channel 3 = N11:3


and the addresses of the 1746-NI4 analog input module in slot ďPĒ would be as follows:



Quote:
Channel 0 = N11:4

Channel 1 = N11:5

Channel 2 = N11:6

Channel 3 = N11:7


the addresses of the 1746-IA8 discrete module in slot ďNĒ would be as follows:



Quote:
bits I:9.18/0 through I:9.18/7


the addresses of the 1746-IA8 discrete module in slot ďRĒ would be as follows:



Quote:
bits I:9.26/0 through I:9.26/7


for anyone whoís interested in the issues involved in this thread, Iíve just confirmed all of the statements above with the real-world hardware in my lab ... maybe this will be helpful to someone someday ...



and thank you, Ken, for all of the nice compliments ...
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Old November 27th, 2005, 06:16 AM   #30
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more of a challenge?

Ron,
Another outstanding post.
If you wanted to, you could make this even more interesting. The NI4 is one of the easiest cards to handle via block transfers, but what if it was something different?

I threw the following together, just for the heck of it. It has happened to me, and I'm sure many others, it's not that big a challenge if you're familiar with SLC analog cards and block transfers, but it could help someone out in a similar situation, somewhere down the road.


The problem:

Suppose it's the middle of the night and the NI4 in slot P dies. You have a spare NI8 on hand. You decide to replace the 4 channel card with the 8 channel card, relanding the inputs on the first 4 channels of the new card. You don't want to redo all the code using these first 4 channels, so what steps would be required to accomplish this task?
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