You are not registered yet. Please click here to register!


 
 
plc storereviewsdownloads
This board is for PLC Related Q&A ONLY. Please DON'T use it for advertising, etc.
 
Try our online PLC Simulator- FREE.  Click here now to try it.

---------->>>>>Get FREE PLC Programming Tips

New Here? Please read this important info!!!


Go Back   PLCS.net - Interactive Q & A > PLCS.net - Interactive Q & A > LIVE PLC Questions And Answers

PLC training tools sale

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 21st, 2017, 11:34 AM   #16
PLC Pie Guy
Member
Canada

PLC Pie Guy is offline
 
PLC Pie Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Halifax
Posts: 652
After using 5000 95% of the time for the last 4 years, the little bit of work I do in 500 seems a little more challenging than it used to be. Always going back to the help files and such. 5000 just seems to hold your hand where 500 will simply give you clues.

I am defiantly spoiled now with my AOIs and UDTs.

Thank you 5000
  Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 06:27 PM   #17
daba
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
United Kingdom

daba is offline
 
daba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 4,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
Hehe. Now that's just silly. "it" implies you are referring to the task of manipulating an AOI online and not the person per se. So your statement is perfectly fine here as it implies more a potentially wrong task. You could have alternatively said "...Way too dangerous if you were to incorrectly edit an AOI online..." or similar. But that's just me being fancy. Nope, you haven't even offended me here.

At least I've got you thinking about it now 😉

......
Regards,
George
I will totally disregard your usage of "wrong" in your reply, even though you want to correct me in my usage of the word.

You said my statement was "perfectly fine", so why call it "silly" ?

And then you go on to suggest I should have reworded it....

I will not tolerate such nit-picking, and could so easily leave this forum right now... pick out errors in technical content, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, or in your preferred word "incorrect". Neither bothers me, they both mean the same thing....
__________________
___________________________
ControlLogix & SLC Training
a-b train ltd.
abtrain@tiscali.co.uk
www.abtrain.co.uk
tel: 07506 73 9999
nil illegitimi carborundem


  Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 08:26 PM   #18
Geospark
Lifetime Supporting Member
Ireland

Geospark is offline
 
Geospark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kildare
Posts: 2,322
This has all gone so wrong...

I so do not want to do this here but apologies thread...

Man you are very stiff? I was yanking your chain above! But it appears to be wound so tight? You are completely reading this upside down.

Leave the Forum? On my account? Over something so very trivial? Of which I said from the outset was a very small observation of mine?

Please take a breath and read...

This "conversation", I would like to hope, would have had a whole other tone and clarity if we were having it face to face where I could better and more quickly explain my intent.

I was being humurous above which has clearly gone over your, at this point, fuming head. All over one word?

I meant it was silly as in I never said never use the word wrong. You are taking me literally. It's a contextual decision I'm advocating here. Of course you can use it wherever you, personally, choose to. I was advising, only, and in as well intentioned a manner as I possibly could/can, that we, not just you (I was advising in general in the other thread for all readers while using an example) should in situations where the use of the word wrong, contextually, could possibly be interpreted as sounding terse or conceited; avoid using it so as to avoid potential friction.

Your above example, contextually, is not one of those situations. It is perfectly polite in delivery here because, contextually, it clearly refers to a task more so than any individual. There is no argument from me here, or anywhere else, on what the word wrong means or doesn't mean. I took pains originally to explain that your meaning was/is very clear, in all cases I've read, and that all I was focusing on was the potential for the delivery to, in specific cases, be perceived as terse. Not the worst a statement can be perceived as, granted, but subtly avoidable, in my honest opinion.

My efforts here, even as good intentioned as I believe them to be, are a prime example of how text can be perceived in many ways - often poorly or abhorently received. All I've written so far, and quite thoughtfully I'll add, was in the hope of helping. If you do not want to accept that fact, and it is a fact, that all I was trying to advise was a possible subtle change for what I believe to be the better, then you may prerogatively do so. And while doing so, there is certainly no need to take it so to heart. Laugh it off. Laugh me off if you wish. But please don't focus on a perceived negative that simply was never there.

A little constructive advice from one contributor to another. What's so terribly wrong with that?

I will, in this case, humbly apologise to you if you feel I have offended you. Nothing could have been further from my mind - a safer place I would imagine?

Respectfully yours,
George
__________________
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men".
  Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2017, 06:56 PM   #19
Maintenance Man
Member
United States

Maintenance Man is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 247
I appreciate all the good advice.

I would like to thank every one for giving me such good information. I know you are all very busy. All this information has given me good ideas were I need to start. I work on a night shift and have some time to work on the RsLogix 5000 set up in our shop. I wish every one a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year.
__________________
There are three kinds of people; those that make things happen, those that watch things happen and those who don't know what's happening.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2017, 10:12 PM   #20
daba
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
United Kingdom

daba is offline
 
daba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 4,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post
I so do not want to do this here but apologies thread...
Apologies accepted, on one condition.... look up the meaning of the adjective "terse", and then explain why it's a bad thing in context....
__________________
___________________________
ControlLogix & SLC Training
a-b train ltd.
abtrain@tiscali.co.uk
www.abtrain.co.uk
tel: 07506 73 9999
nil illegitimi carborundem


  Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:12 AM   #21
Geospark
Lifetime Supporting Member
Ireland

Geospark is offline
 
Geospark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kildare
Posts: 2,322
How things can easily be read, or misread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark
I so do not want to do this here but apologies thread...

...I will, in this case, humbly apologise to you if you feel I have offended you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by daba
Apologies accepted, on one condition...
Possibly being misread? - The apologies at the top of my last post was for everyone else. I was not saying I did not want to apologise, like a reluctant surrender. I was apologising for derailing the thread and saying how much I did not want to do so.

The apology at the bottom is yours to accept, if you will?

The apology is there and is sincere, but it is unconditional. Accept it as is, or not. It's a token of regret if I had offended you while dispensing some advice. A proverbial olive branch, if you will? All else you might want to discuss or debate should come after the apology and not be conditioned to your acceptance of it. My viewpoint on this ever so slight matter still stands. I am not apologising for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daba
...look up the meaning of the adjective "terse", and then explain why it's a bad thing in context...
If I could not, satisfactorily, explain what you have conditionally asked, does that mean you will not accept my apology? That would be a strange stance to take? But I don't really think that's what you mean. It's just one way that your statement could be construed. It's another example of how our word choice and statement structure can convey undesirable meaning.

However, with regards to continuing here, I feel I have more than explained what I was trying to point out. I don't need to look up the meaning of words I have carefully chosen. I could have chosen stronger adjectives than terse, but I did not. At this stage, if you cannot accept or agree with my point of view here, then that is fine. But I really don't see what more I can offer you on the matter.

I do wish you a Happy Holiday season.

Regards,
George
__________________
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men".
  Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2017, 10:46 AM   #22
Steve Bailey
Lifetime Supporting Member + Moderator
United States

Steve Bailey is offline
 
Steve Bailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The boondocks of Western Massachusetts USA
Posts: 6,467
Some unsolicited advice to Geospark and Daba.
The only person whose behavior you can change looks back at from the mirror.
The congenitally thin-skinned will always find an excuse to take offense at what you say, no matter your choice of words. Attempts to prevent someone else from taking offense at what you say are doomed to failure.
There will always be people who take pride in pointing out every mistake you make. Their motto seems to be, the more the truth hurts, the more it needs to be told.
Most of fall somewhere between the two extremes described above.
The world needs both diplomats and firebrands.
Let it be.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2017, 01:17 PM   #23
Aardwizz
Member
United Kingdom

Aardwizz is offline
 
Aardwizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Swindon
Posts: 128
As DABA said, the ladder is pretty much the same, but the data tables have changed.

Gone are the various tables (I:, O:, B3:, N7:, etc). Instead, there is one big "table" of "Controller-scoped" tags. These are referenced by name, not number, and you can give them whatever name helps you best. (More on that in a bit).


I/O
The I/O tags are based on the name of the rack in which the I/O card resides. The rack in which the PLC processor lives is called "LOCAL". Remote racks can be anything you want.

Actual I/O addresses would then take the form of "Local:6:I.Data.2, for the channel 2 discrete input point in slot 6, for example. Like with a SLC, 5000 adds all the relevant data when you add the module into the PLC configuration.


DINTs
Your most common data type to store integers is now the 32-bit DINT ("Double Integer"). No longer do you need worry about exceeding 32767; you now can manage values of over 2.1 billion. This makes life much easier.


Timers
Gone are the various time-bases. Everything is in milliseconds. But because .PRE and ACC are now DINT datatypes, 2.1 billion milliseconds translates to about 25 days, rather than the 9-hour limit that 32767 sec gave you.


Arrays
In the SLC, you may have taken advantage of the fact that registers were next to each other, and used indirect addressing and file instructions (FAL, FSC, COP, FLL) to efficiently manage data.

In a tag-based system, you do the same thing by defining a tag as an array ("DINT[256]") data type. You could create an array tag, called N7, and now, where in the SLC you might reference N7:13 you would reference N7[13]. In fact, that's exactly what the SLC-CLX conversion tool does.

But you don't really need to. I don't know if you've ever run into times in working with arrays in the SLC where you had a "file" from something like F8:50-75 and were pointing to it with an indirect address, but later wanted to increase the size of that array to 50 elements, only to discover in your "Usage Table" that F8:76+ were used elsewhere in the program, so you couldn't without a lot of rewriting.


Usage Table
That's probably the biggest culture shock when going from 500 to 5000. It doesn't exist. That's because you don't have a need to find unused memory to store data, you create that memory instead.

You can find out if whole tags are not referenced in the code (to clean up memory allocation), and there are even tricks to find out if what elements haven't been used yet, if you like to do things like create a "Onshots" DINT and take unique bits from within that word. But there's nothing like the old Usage view of a data table.


Programs and Program Tags
In the SLC, you could put all your code in a routine called LAD2, or you could break up your code into functional groups, putting them into separate routines (LAD3, LAD4) and call them with JSRs.


You can still do all that with 5000, but additionally, you can organize your code even more, with the creation of multiple "Programs", each of which have their own children routines under them.

That way, you can have a "LINE1" program, with "MOTORS", "PHOTOEYES", and other routines under it, and a "LINE2" program, with its own "MOTORS", etc., routines under them. You don't have to, but you can. It makes things easier to find, and identical things can be identical, with maybe only a simple search-replace of tag names.

Each Program has its own collection of locally-scoped tags as well. This feature actually exists in the SLC, where you can assign a data-table to only being exposed to a particular routine, but no one ever used it (that I ever saw). Here, however, it can be very useful. Controller-scoped tags are exposed to every program; program-scoped tags are scoped only to that program.

So if you were to have a "Oneshots" DINT tag in your LINE1 program, and also have a "Oneshots" tag in your LINE2 program, when you copy your code for LINE1 into LINE2, each [ONS] instruction is only referring to its local tag, and doesn't interfere with the other line. You didn't have to "find new unused addresses" for the "new" oneshots.

By keeping all the "placeholder" tags, for oneshots, interim calculation holding registers, certain timers, and so forth in the Program instead of the Controller, makes the Controller tag folder a lot less cluttered.

UDTs
In addition to the "Atomic" types that DABA meantioned (BOOL, DINT, REAL, etc.), and arrays above, you can create your own data type.

This can greatly improve the organization of the program, because you have all the elements that you need wrapped up in a single tag.

You're actually quite used to this concept already. A T4 data type in the SLC consists of 2 integers (.PRE & .ACC), and 3 bits (.DN, .EN, & .TT). With UDTs, you create a similar mix of other data types, but with anything you want.

For example, if you have 10 motors, and each motor can be controlled via the HMI by having an Auto and Manual Mode, with a Start and Stop command, an output and an aux contact, failure alarms, and so on, rather than make a bunch of tags for each motor ("M101_Start", "M101_Stop", "M101_Oper", etc), you can create a single tag ("M101") of a "Motor" data type that has elements ("M101.Start", ""M101.Stop", etc.) for what you want.

If you create a routine for M101 that does all the start/stop logic, mode & alarm handling and so on, now all you have to do is create a tag ("M201"), copy the whole routine to a new one, search/replace M101 for M201, and the only thing left is to tie the in the different I/O points.

Asynchronous I/O Scans
In the SLC, there was one execution thread: Read Inputs >> Scan Logic >> Write Outputs >> Do Housekeeping >> ((repeat)).

There could also be an STI routine that could periodically interrupt this sequence with the execution of its logic.

The CLX handles the I/O updates periodically, outside of logic scan. In theory, this could cause problems, because a --| |-- referencing an input module could be true on one rung but not on the next, rung if the I/O scan happened to arrive between the logic scans of the two rungs.

The hype about this is largely overblown, IMO. HMI communication has always been asynchronous to scan, but only rarely have I see that cause problems. But people will insist that you "have to" buffer I/O --- that is, map the I/O to internal registers, using the real address once and only once.

That's not a bad thing to do, mind you, especially if using UDTs anyway. But it is not strictly required. Just be aware of the asynchronous nature of I/O. If the only thing you use the Aux contact input is for alarming, and you compare both the On and Off state to your motor starter coil to run a "failed" timer, nothing is going get screwed up because for one scan both the XIO and XIC were true. The timer will only accumulate a few milliseconds, not enough to cause a "false alarm".

There are a zillion more tricks, trips, and traps, but this is more than enough to get you started.

Enjoy, good luck, and Merry Christmas.
  Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2017, 02:02 PM   #24
DSMR
Member
United States

DSMR is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganB View Post
I hate that they got rid of the SCP instruction, but once you have the AOI it's no different. Just wish when you had the AOI installed, it would convert the old SCPs into the new SCPs when running the auto conversion instead of making them into long nonsensical CPT statements instead.

IIRC you can accomplish the same thing using the SCL function block. I thought it was still a fairly clean way to get the function of a SCP and broke up the monotony.
  Reply With Quote
Reply
Jump to Live PLC Question and Answer Forum

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RS Logix 500 - When loading is FactoryTalk Service Platform the same as RS Logix 5000 Rob S. LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 3 March 15th, 2017 08:14 AM
is it possible to program direct logic plcs with rs logix 500, 5000 kevin098 LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 2 November 25th, 2013 12:54 PM
Slc 500 or 5000 Maintenance Man LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 2 March 14th, 2011 12:21 PM
RS 500 to RS 5000 jtashaffer LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 2 February 6th, 2011 09:59 PM
Rslogix 5, 500 and 5000 MiamiEngineer LIVE PLC Questions And Answers 1 February 9th, 2006 01:19 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:58 AM.


.