Wago terminals as PLC

[Pierre]

I've just quoted a job using Wago's 750 serie terminals/PLC controler or whatever it's called.

Can you give me some insight on there programming software.

Not much on there Web site on it.

It will be coupled with Nematron's PowerView HMI (tin-client).

The Systems all have the same profile.

750-841 as PLC with Ethernet access
750-653 as RS-485 com module to access some level transmitters (8)
Digital Is and Os plus PS and Bus termination modules.

I see this Controler can be setup as FTP server. Can't wait to see if its user friendly me being the user and not usually perticularly friendly

Anyone has done some work with this before?

[dash]

I have just started evaluating the 750-841, I have previously used the 750-842. It has just recently become available in North America and currently (as of today) there is no manual avaiable in English yet. It is still in the process of being translated in Germantown, Wisconsin.

The software is from 3S Software. A link to their website is:

http://www.3s-software.com

They call the software CoDeSys. They also have a group of partners with the lofty goal of a single programming package for multiple hardware targets from different vendors. ABB used to be a partner, but I noticed as writing this that they are no longer listed as a partner. (http://www.automation-alliance.com/s...er_04_2003.pdf)

The software is extemely good at structured text (ST), instuction list (IL), function block diagram (FBD), sequential function chart (SFC), Continuous Function Chart (CFC) (like FBD just more free format in how you layout the blocks) and it also supports ladder (LD), but this is definetly NOT its strong point. It is usable (the ladder editor), but not great. You can definetly see that it was created in Germany where ladder programming probably has one of the lowest followings.

Oh, I almost forgot the software is sold on a site license (neat concept). It also includes a basic HMI so that for initial demos you can throw together a decent looking interface.

They also have extreamly inexpensive intrinsically safe I/O blocks.

I have a few issues with the current 750-841, which at this point I do not think should be aired in a public forum. If you would like to discuss you can request & I will send you cantact info in a private message.

You may want to look at their older 750-842, which are definetly stable. By the way, remember there is no online programming (debugging, yes). That will come in the future on the 750-841 (not implemented yet, no matter what their marketing brochure states).

Hope this helps,

Darren

[Pierre]

Do you mean that the software called WAGO-I/O-PRO 32 is in fact this CoDeSys with the relevant ressources?

I've seen the CoDeSys Website and there mention of Wago being part of a group about automation standards and they say this:

CoDeSys is one of the most common IEC 61131-3 programming systems for PLCs and industrial controllers. More than 100 manufacturers of hardware components for the automation industry rely on it.

Many tancks for your help Dash beerchug

[dash]

Actually starting with the 750-841 it is EXACTLY the CoDeSys development environment. See screen shot.

Also the new software (not WAGO-I/O-PRO 32) is actually called "Wago I/O Pro - CAA". The CAA stands for CoDeSys Automation Alliance (or something like that). The thing to note is that you MUST buy two different versions of the software to program the older PFCs (programable field controller) versus the new 750-841.

The CAA version will ONLY program the new 750-841. The I/O Pro32 programs EVERYTHING else that they have, until they update the older PFCs to the new Intel StrongARM processor.

Also note that the PFC you are interested in supports Ethernet/IP, which makes it a great choice as an intelligent node. You can set up I/O tables in a ControlLogix and have seemless communication.

Darren

[Pierre]

I bow to you Sir. These infos are not only precise, they are far over the heads of my local distributor.

In the quote I have stated that the End-users picks up cost of programming softwares 'cause he put them in the specs without even knowing which they will be.

I suspect that he got his specs from his reps!!! They sometimes do that y'a know.

Anyway, I looks nice on paper. Have you done work with there CodeSysSP (Soft PLC)?

I kind'a like these Wago I/Os. There is much coms available.

And again tancks. beerchug

[dash]

<<Anyway, I looks nice on paper. Have you done work with there CodeSysSP (Soft PLC)?>>

No, not recently. I have used a product (about 2 years ago) from Beckhoff called TwinCAT PLC that I am almost certain that it is based on the CoDeSys kernel. It worked very well for our use. Also note that until the past couple of years the Wago & Beckhoff products were designed at the same location. Beckhoff provided low level engineering services and Wago provided the plastic injection know how for the I/O blocks and terminals.

I am interested in Wago's industrial PC that will be based on the CoDeSysSP kernel. Very cost effective.

Darren

[LadderLogic]

This CoDeSys screenshot looks suspiciously similar to Beckhoff's Twincat...

[stealth_one]

The WAGO is very similar to the Beckhoff system. As the previous message states, the software looks similar. If you were to compare the terminals, they look the same.

Beckhoff is a pretty easy system to program so I would assume that the WAGO system is similar.

[shooter]

beckhoff and wago are in the older systems the same.
beckhoff does somewhat faster development, however i can use wago on ships as it has loydds approval. and beckhoff does not.

the software is same and yes it is all codesys.
3s tries to sell it to other plc factories.

if needed i could program for you.
and yes despite a message you can program over the fieldbus, it takes some steps but is good possible.
i always do it local as it is faster and i have to reset the plc.

you can only watch one plc at a time. so the scada is limited but it works.

[Jim Dungar]

I heard that the Beckhoff and Wago systems are identical (at least hardware wise).

Originally, Beckhoff was going to concentrate on the industrial market place (i.e. process control)and Wago was going to focus on the commerical markets (i.e. HVAC).

[stealth_one]

From what I recall from Beckhoff training I attended, the hardware is the same (froim the same physical plastics molds), but the firmware might be different.

From my experiences with Beckhoff, their parts stock and US support is quite good. I have not dealt with WAGO yet.

[Laurent]

Hi Pierre,

BTW since we are a little bit too far from Germany, did you notice that the local 3S rep. is based in Charny with an office in Montreal ? Could be nice for technical support or demo versions on CoDeSys software...!

The company's name is Cybectec (http://www.cybectec.com/en/Power/Products/smp/smp.htm) . They include CoDeSys in their own products (SMP gateway dedicated to electric substations) as a soft PLC engine.

Hope this helps.

Laurent

[RRobbins]

Dash, have you converted any programs from the Wago 32 pro to Codesys? I am going up from the 750-842 to the 750-841. The program for the web pages and PLC process was too big and caused some watch dog timer issues. The nice thing on the 841, my program for the web page is external to the PLC code and programs with Front Page instead of HTML in the processor. You use a FTP (Leech FTP) to transfer the web pages back and forth. I am going to set up the SNMP to send emails on alarms. Cool Stuff. The 841 also has a real time clock in it. Support seems to be lagging in the US.

As far as hardware between Wago and Beckoff, I think the plastic is the same. The firmware is different and the support for both companies will NOT support mixing and matching.

[dash]

Yes I have converted two programs so far (had it about 1.5 weeks). There is a short readme that is on the CD and at the bottom it has an OK description of how to do it. You must follow the instructions.

The issue that I had is that once it was converted when you compiled it, it created a datatable area WAY to big (560K), which would not fit on the processor. So I ended up cutting and pasting from the converted program to a blank new project, this fixed that issue.

Even then it still creates to large of a data area. What used to fit in 12K, now takes 260K!! The program sizes are comparable (within a few K). I have sent an initial report to the US support, but have had no response yet. I expected some data/program growth by going from a 16 bit processor to a 32 bit, but not that much!!


Darren

[dash]

Just to let the few people that were following this thread know that I recieved a new 750-841 PFC and it solved the majority of the issues I was having with it. I still have an issue with the data table size the new compiler creates for the program I have. I am still pushing Wago to explain the increase.

Darren