Siemens system

bill4807

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Mar 2013
Location
michigan
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Hi all,

I am in need of a little guidence or at least some information to get me going in the right direction.
I have a customer that is requesting we use a siemens based system for 2 machine, 1 robot with conveyor system.
I have very limited experience with siemens, very basic S7-300, and S7-1200. I mean basic as in, setting discrete I/O and doing simple ladder with some timers and counters.

Typically for this I would use something like an L24ER compactlogic, with an automation direct or PV800 10-12" screen.

I have yet to meet with a siemens distributor, but am very soon.
Looking through documentation it seems like the S7-1200 would be to small. So I see a S7-1500 and then some type of EP200 CPU I think?
Im sure the distributor will straighten it out for me but wanted some feedback for you all first.

Another thing, can siemens only communicate using ASI, I/O link, profibus and profinet? I see nothing in there for ethernet I/P?


The system pretty basic consists of some type of " net" based communication with the robot, the two machines, and a conveyor box. So i would say 4-5 nodes max.

How much of a treat am I in for?
Can the HMIs be programmed using TIA portal?
Would you say it is similiar to a Panel view plus as far as tags and environment go?

As you can tell I am very green here, but excited to get into it.
 
How many I/O ?

An S7-1200 could be enough if the I/O count is low and you dont need so much performance.
If not, you have a choice between S7-1500 with ET200MP I/O in larger module (16 or 32 channels per module) or ET200SP I/O in smaller modules (4, 8 or 16 channels per module - avoid the 16 channel modules !).
If you want a CPU with integrated I/O like the L24ER has, then there are S7-1500 CPUs with integrated I/O.

Siemens is very much based around Profinet in the same way that ControlLogix is based around Ethernet/IP.

HMIs comes in several types of performance. The simples are called "basic" and can be programmed with WinCC Basic which comes with any version of TIA Portal. The next level is called "comfort", requires WinCC Comfort in TIA Portal. The next level again is PC based runtimes, requires WinCC Advanced in TIA Portal.
 
RE: How many I/O ?

Hi Jesper,


May I ask why do you sugest to avoid ET200SP 16 channel modules. Most of my clients are using them and I'm not aware of any shortcoming compared with 4 or 8 channel versions.


Thank you,
Kelkoon
 
Is this because you need separate terminals for IO L+ and -M which you don't need if 4 or 8 channel versions are used?
In my opinion, the 16-channel cards are too cramped, even if you do not need to connect additional wires for voltage distribution.
I was perfectly happy with the 4-channel modules in ET200S. Where does this need to squeze sooo many channels into one card come from ?
Anyway, I apologize for derailing the thread.
 
Have you had a look at this?

https://www.industry.usa.siemens.com/topics/us/en/ethernet-ip/pages/ethernet-ip.aspx

The 1200's are a good bang for your buck, although the offering in modules is not great.

The HMI's can be programmed with TIA Portal.

What do you mean the offerings in modules are not great? Is it you can only add a certain amount of expansion I/O?

I will look into the ethernet I/P remote head. I am not opposed to profinet i just need to make sure all my other devices can take it.
 
How many I/O ?

An S7-1200 could be enough if the I/O count is low and you dont need so much performance.
If not, you have a choice between S7-1500 with ET200MP I/O in larger module (16 or 32 channels per module) or ET200SP I/O in smaller modules (4, 8 or 16 channels per module - avoid the 16 channel modules !).
If you want a CPU with integrated I/O like the L24ER has, then there are S7-1500 CPUs with integrated I/O.

Siemens is very much based around Profinet in the same way that ControlLogix is based around Ethernet/IP.

HMIs comes in several types of performance. The simples are called "basic" and can be programmed with WinCC Basic which comes with any version of TIA Portal. The next level is called "comfort", requires WinCC Comfort in TIA Portal. The next level again is PC based runtimes, requires WinCC Advanced in TIA Portal.

The discrete expansion I/O off the processor will probably be around 20 IN, 20 OUT. This is normally enough for something like this. All my safety is hardwired or i use external programmable safety controller. So no integrated safety needed in the PLC.
I will look into basic and comfort for the HMIs.
Ahh ok winnCC i thought i may have to use this, although i have never up to this point.
 
Ahh ok winnCC i thought i may have to use this, although i have never up to this point.

Please note there are different series and versions of 'WinCC'.

WinCC older Scada type software

WinCC Flexible older HMI type software (Multiple versions including standard / advanced)

TIA WinCC encompasses both I believe with it's different versions: Basic, comfort, advanced professional)

I just say this so you don't start requesting quotes or support for WinCC which is vastly different than TIA WinCC which you would most likely use.
 
Please note there are different series and versions of 'WinCC'.

WinCC older Scada type software

WinCC Flexible older HMI type software (Multiple versions including standard / advanced)

TIA WinCC encompasses both I believe with it's different versions: Basic, comfort, advanced professional)

I just say this so you don't start requesting quotes or support for WinCC which is vastly different than TIA WinCC which you would most likely use.

Ok, this is good to know.
Who i spoke with informed me that the TIA professional package would cover WinCC for the basic panel i plan on using. They also say tech support is free 8-5. That was great news!
 
If you limit yourself to S7-1200 and basic panels, TIA STEP7 BASIC will be sufficient, it includes WinCC BASIC and is relatively inexpensive.

I think i will lean towards the S7-1511 since it has more profinet nodes. The S7-1200 they say has a max of 8 and a PC connection counts for one, and also the HMI counts for one. I was assuming "not knowing" that yhe PC and HMI would not count..
They say if im doing basic HMI screens, buttoms, alarms ect, no scripting, or logging that KTP would be Ok. Up to 800 or so tags, thats plenty for this.
 
I think i will lean towards the S7-1511 since it has more profinet nodes. The S7-1200 they say has a max of 8 and a PC connection counts for one, and also the HMI counts for one. I was assuming "not knowing" that yhe PC and HMI would not count..
They say if im doing basic HMI screens, buttoms, alarms ect, no scripting, or logging that KTP would be Ok. Up to 800 or so tags, thats plenty for this.

The 8 (more for firmware 4) connections are in addition to one PC connection and three(more for firmware 4) HMI connections.

Link
 
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