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Old February 5th, 2019, 06:53 AM   #31
geniusintraining
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Part of my morning routine now... check for updates and uninstall

I am surprised that its taking so long, there are a lot of users out there using CCW and this is not the first time, this has happen before and I think this is the 3rd time, so shame on them for not having a plan in place ready to roll out.
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Old February 5th, 2019, 08:16 AM   #32
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Don't shoot the messenger!...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLC Pie Guy
...They have to do something, its their responsibility to their users! Don't just say, meh, Microsoft will fix it in a few weeks...As of now, there is no fix! Big applauds to Microsoft and Rockwell!...
Quote:
Originally Posted by git
...I am surprised that its taking so long, there are a lot of users out there using CCW and this is not the first time, this has happen before and I think this is the 3rd time, so shame on them for not having a plan in place ready to roll out.
I sense the frustration here in the thread, but I don't think they are dealing with this in a off-handed or couldn't care less manner? By my reading of the situation, the "plan" has already been implemented, as far as Rockwell are concerned, and probably as speedily as could be expected at such an elevated level. Don't forget that the Windows Security Updates are not just applied to fix or keep "our" specific user software going. It relates to many aspects of the running Operating System. Microsoft cannot simply rush to "fix" one discovered anomaly in many Security Updates without scoping it all out and then correcting it, and then testing it as best they can, and then releasing it. Rush it and possibly CCW now works but perhaps something else now doesn't? Cue rants on other software Forums. These things take a minimum amount of time. Early February for a correction release is good going by Microsoft's standards, in my book of experience.

On Rockwell's responsibilities...

I don't speak for Rockwell and how they address issues, but my best guess here is that on programming workstations with ISaGRAF based software products installed, Microsoft introduced "something" in their recent Windows Security Updates that messes with these products, which would otherwise function correctly without said Security Updates. More specifically, ISaGRAF relies heavily on Microsoft Visual Studio, and it is most likely that the updates affected this particular product. But that would just be my best guess here. As ISaGRAF, which is used in several different software products, is a subsidiary of Rockwell Automation, it is indeed their responsibility to manage the issue through to a resolution. Rockwell, I'm sure, having realized the issue with their software products, would then have contacted Microsoft to root cause the issue. Having done so, it most likely was found that the root cause was that the "something" Microsoft had introduced in the Security Updates (Jan 8th 2019) is a Microsoft anomaly, and that the affected ISaGRAF based products are indeed otherwise functioning correctly. If so, it would not be Rockwell's direct responsibility to address this OS issue. Their responsibility to their customers is to take up the issue with Microsoft, which they appear to have done. Rockwell cannot develop or release corrected Microsoft Windows Security Updates, as of course we know. In this particular case it is Microsoft's responsibility to resolve the issue. I'm sure Rockwell have made it very clear to them that it needs to be addressed post-haste. Hence the mention of early February for the next batch of Windows Security Updates which should correct the issue. While this is not near quick enough for many users, this timescale is arguably quick by Microsoft's standards. They are probably doing quite well to get them to resolve it this quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwell Automation
Important – The Rockwell Automation software products themselves are correct. Microsoft is aware of this anomaly and has plans for a correction to the security update patch.

PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
The products affected by the installation of the identified Microsoft Windows Security Patches are:

ISaGRAF 4 Workbench
ISaGRAF 5 Workbench
AADvance Workbench (all versions)
FlexiSafe™ Workbench
CCW (Connected Components Workbench) when used with projects containing Micro800™ controllers
ISaGRAF 6 Workbench for application targeting ISaGRAF 5 Runtime
ISaGRAF 6 Workbench for application targeting vMonitor Runtime
This, unfortunately, is just one of many glitches that can go unnoticed or untested before a Windows Update is released. Microsoft are dealing with such issues, where other software developer's products are not working, on an ongoing basis. So one could point one's frustration at them solely, more so than at Rockwell? But, pointing it anywhere does little good in these situations, I feel. Knowing what is causing it and what will fix it, and when, is all we should concern ourselves with here.

All I would say for those not able to resolve this at present is sit tight. Not very comforting words when folks are under pressure to get the job done, I know. But I think it would be a further waste of your time trying to mitigate this on a daily basis (removing/blocking updates) and potentially creating further unwanted headaches as a result of messing with the OS Updates.

But wherever you decide to vent your frustrations, please, not at me! I am not Microsoft nor Rockwell! I am only expressing my viewpoint here on how I "think" it is being handled by Rockwell i.e. as best as can be expected at such a multi-OS elevated level.

While I notice Microsoft have a patch to prevent Windows 10 from reinstalling removed KB Updates after a system restart; I think, in this case, it might have served them better to provide a patch "roll-back" to revert affected systems to before this anomaly and disable Windows Updates for a defined period until after the corrected updates have been released. This would be simpler for users to implement and then get on with their day.

But by all means, continue to rant, if that is what is helping you to get through these frustrating days!

Regards,
George
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Old February 5th, 2019, 09:04 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post

This, unfortunately, is just one of many glitches that can go unnoticed or untested before a Windows Update is released. Microsoft are dealing with such issues, where other software developer's products are not working, on an ongoing basis. So one could point one's frustration at them solely, more so than at Rockwell? But, pointing it anywhere does little good in these situations, I feel. Knowing what is causing it and what will fix it, and when, is all we should concern ourselves with here.

I would agree but since this has happened in the past at some point you need to look at your internal process and head it off... before your customers look elsewhere for another product, I do understand that **** happens but how many times is my issue


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geospark View Post


But by all means, continue to rant, if that is what is helping you to get through these frustrating days!
I think you know us by now and this user forum is not one for holding back

On a positive note, its February 5th and its going to be 75deg here today, sounds like a good day for a ride
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Old February 5th, 2019, 09:21 AM   #34
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Geospark (and geniusintraining), very well said and a great observation. It’s easy to point the finger at either company and call their stuff **** but the complexity of what both companies are producing (just related to this issue) is almost unfathomable by themselves, combine the two and it’s amazing the process works as well as it does. I understand the frustration but when you step back and look at what you are able to do with all of the different variants of Rockwell’s programming software and the complexity of what they all do, it’s hard to justify complaining about some “glitches” here and there.
As to those who are finding themselves having to “re-uninstall” the updates, do a google search on how to suspend your updates (for Windows 10. I don’t know if you can do it for 7). You can’t do it permanently, but you can do it long enough for MS to have a working fix available.
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Old February 6th, 2019, 08:31 AM   #35
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Yes, Microsoft introduced security "something something" that broke Access 97 format databases with field names of greater than 32 characters. And, as odd as this may seem, CCW and the other packages use this old format (using the Jet engine) instead of something a little newer. The fact that Microsoft is still supporting (well, after they patch the patch) a 22 year old database format is pretty amazing. It's also pretty amazing that Rockwell is using a 22 year old database system for a current software release.
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Old February 6th, 2019, 11:14 AM   #36
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How to keep Windows 10 from installing a specific update.

microsoft does offer us a way to stop these evil security updates from being loaded and destroying our lives.

go to https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...driver-updates

This page is titled "Hide Windows Updates or driver updates". At the bottom of the first paragraph there is a link called "download this trouble shooter"

Download it and run it.

I had already uninstalled update KB4480966 when I ran this. The app asked weather to show hidden updates or to Hide updates. I selected "Hide updates"The App found the update that I uninstalled and offered to keep it from loading again. I checked the box next to the update and hit "next". The app did the rest.

Now when I shut down my windows 10 laptop the shutdown button still says shutdown and update, but KB4480966 is not loaded!

Hope this works for everybody.

Spidermite

Last edited by Spidermite; February 6th, 2019 at 11:17 AM.
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Old February 6th, 2019, 11:47 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidermite View Post
How to keep Windows 10 from installing a specific update.

microsoft does offer us a way to stop these evil security updates from being loaded and destroying our lives.

go to https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...driver-updates

This page is titled "Hide Windows Updates or driver updates". At the bottom of the first paragraph there is a link called "download this trouble shooter"

Download it and run it.

I had already uninstalled update KB4480966 when I ran this. The app asked weather to show hidden updates or to Hide updates. I selected "Hide updates"The App found the update that I uninstalled and offered to keep it from loading again. I checked the box next to the update and hit "next". The app did the rest.

Now when I shut down my windows 10 laptop the shutdown button still says shutdown and update, but KB4480966 is not loaded!

Hope this works for everybody.

Spidermite
This worked for me on my home machine. Temporarily. The hidden updates are now blocked but then a different one will install that I didn't get a chance to block yet. Up the creek again.

My work machine, IT has control of and are struggling with this. I still can't use CCW at work. Just hope nothing here requires CCW until something gets resolved. Sometimes when I uninstall an update on my work machine, it absolutely kills it. Requiring a restore to an earlier date. The whole process takes hours, Iv done it twice now.

I'm not ranting, or venting, simply stating the fact, I'm finished with CCW until something gets resolved. My stress can't handle spending hours to get software going each time I want to use it.

Its sad!
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Old February 6th, 2019, 09:41 PM   #38
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CCW is a little quirky IMHO and so I recommend running it by itself in its own Win 10 VM and disabling automatic updates on the win 10 VM.

Make a base snapshot and restore when it gets hosed but the incidents should be low if there are no other software titles installed and updates are disabled.
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Old February 6th, 2019, 11:48 PM   #39
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I run CCW in a Win7 VM and the USB driver is super brittle. If you lose connectivity while connected you need to reboot the VM before it will work again. In fact the VM will hang when you try to reboot it and you need to power cycle it instead. Does this behaviour happen in Win10 VMs?
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Old February 6th, 2019, 11:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff White View Post
I run CCW in a Win7 VM and the USB driver is super brittle. If you lose connectivity while connected you need to reboot the VM before it will work again. In fact the VM will hang when you try to reboot it and you need to power cycle it instead. Does this behaviour happen in Win10 VMs?
I had some issues getting the USB driver to work correctly in some earlier versions of CCW on Win 10 but as of the last 2 major releases I have not had any issues with the USB Driver.

Are you using VMware or something else? If VMware are you using workstation or player? I use workstation but don't really user player at all so I can't speak for it.

I know with newer laptops and USB 3.0 ports some earlier versions of Workstation and player had issues with Virtual USB ports and speeds / Mapping. I am running workstation 15 and a lot of those issues are gone and the way devices are added and removed from the VM is much easier now also.

Just a few thoughts.
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Old February 7th, 2019, 12:13 AM   #41
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I'm using CCW10 on Player 15. I was running it on workstation with even more problems with USB. I then did a "repair" of my workstation install and it broke the host win10 install so badly that I had to do a Reset on it. Good times.
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Old February 7th, 2019, 12:30 PM   #42
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After an entire day trying to solve the same problem on Windows 7, found out that KB4480970 update needs to be uninstalled! If nothing works for you, try uninstalling updates that start with "KB44809".
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Old February 7th, 2019, 12:56 PM   #43
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Today....

On one PC found I had to remove an Adobe update

Had this on another ....
Attached Images
File Type: png CCWERROR.png (16.9 KB, 55 views)
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Old February 7th, 2019, 02:10 PM   #44
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YUP!
There is not enough hours in a day to spend any time on that foolishness. I was talking to a Rockwell Rep. today about this and hes been swamped the last 3 weeks with every customer using CCW. He says no solution yet but be patient.
Tell that to the production overlords! They have been patient long enough.
Man wants his machine but Microsoft holds the keys!
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Old February 7th, 2019, 05:22 PM   #45
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Hi,


Newb here... I am trying to create a new project for a Micro850, but I am running into the exact problem described in this thread with a new install of CCW on a Windows 10 machine. I went through the list of Windows updates upthread and uninstalled KB4480966, but it didn't fix the problem for me. (None of the other Windows updates listed are installed on my machine.) I even tried uninstalling CCW and re-installing it. No joy.

Prior to installing CCW on my machine, I already had Visual Studio 2008 and several versions of the Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable. These were interfering with the CCW installation process so I had to uninstall some of them, but I eventually managed to get CCW to install. That's when I ran into difficulties creating a new project for the Micro850.

Any ideas? I am able to "see" the Micro850 from the RSLinx application that comes with CCW, but CCW itself fails to create the new project whether the Micro850 is connected to my computer or not.


Thanks in advance!

Progress! I got my hands on another computer and asked the IT guys to re-image it with a clean Windows 10 OS, one that has never had any version of Visual Studio installed on it. I still had to remove KB4480966 before the CCW IDE would allow me to create a new project, but at least I can start playing around with the controller.

So there are two issues going on here (at least for me): CCW doesn't play nice with Visual Studio 2008 or Visual Studio 2015, and it doesn't play nice with KB4480966. Cr*p...
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