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Old May 2nd, 2005, 12:23 PM   #1
Johnny T
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Best way to upgrade a SCADA system

Right.. imagine the scenario.. an old PC running a SCADA system connected to seven S5 PLC's. The system needs upgrading but you have no documentation and no software to open the SCADA project (again, an old SCADA system thats been in for years).

How do you go about upgrading the system to a shiny new Mitsi SCADA front end and S7 PLC's in place of the S5's.

I can upgrade the S5 PLC's without any problems but I have no idea how you can upgrade the SCADA system. I'm very new to SCADA and imagine it works just like an HMI in that you set up an interface area and various 'tags' and then address those tags in the software.

How do I work out what 'tags' are being used when I can't get at the SCADA stuff that's on the system.

Basically what I'm saying, is that most, if not all the people on these forums are far more experienced than me.. so I was wondering how you would go about this.

What I was originally thinking was that if I could upgrade the SCADA system first (and get it to talk to the S5's) and then I could upgrade each PLC in turn.

If I upgrade the PLC's first then the existing SCADA system won't be able to communicate with them.

However, if I upgrade the SCADA system first then how do I go about ascertaining which 'tag' does what..? Or even what info I've got coming back?

Sorry if its a badly worded question and I'll happily expand on it if needed.

Thanks for your advice..

JT
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 01:29 PM   #2
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Johnny,

Just curious...what is the old SCADA system?

Kevin H

EDIT:
Don't worry...just saw your other post....
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 01:34 PM   #3
Johnny T
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krk

Its an old OCME proprietary system called Albatross. I mentioned it in another thread. The system is no longer supported by OCME as they have a new system out but the customer doesn't want a system that isn't futureproof. I think they would rather have a Siemens or Mitsi installed. Hence the change.

Plus, all their engineers are up to speed on S7 but there's only one or two of them that can do anything with S5.

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Old May 2nd, 2005, 04:18 PM   #4
Ken Moore
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Quote:
However, if I upgrade the SCADA system first then how do I go about ascertaining which 'tag' does what..? Or even what info I've got coming back?
I think you're going to have to do it the old fashioned way. Call up each screen on the old system and analize it, what does it display, what does it control, make a lot of notes. Depending on how well the PLC code is documented, that may help also.
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 04:32 PM   #5
Johnny T
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Ken

I was fearing that!.. thought there might be something like a 'tag' file somewhere that systems use to store the info or something like that...

As you say.. I'm going to have to develop the new system in parallel with the old until I get all the tags sorted etc.

Sheesh.. boil the coffee, its gonna be a long night!!

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Old May 2nd, 2005, 05:39 PM   #6
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I agree with Ken. Maybe you can set up a new SCADA that runs concurrent with the old SCADA. You can add/test/verify until you are confortable with new system, then cut the old SCADA's umbilical cord.
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Old May 2nd, 2005, 06:05 PM   #7
Johnny T
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Dave

Yep, will have to do this it seems. Oh well... at least it means I can develop the new system without the pressure of a timeframe.

Thanks for all your help..

JT
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 02:23 AM   #8
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At the time S5 was used with SCADA systems, the data going to and comming from the scada where nearly allways routed trough communication DB's. If you can find these, you will know exactly what data is exchanged between the two, then you only have to find out where the data is used in the SCADA system.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 02:38 AM   #9
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Thanks for the response.

When you say "communications DB's", do you mean via FB51 or some other Siemens FB?

If so, any idea what to be looking for?

I know that FB51 does comms to an OP, would it be the same comms FB for communicating to a SCADA system?

Cheers

JT
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 03:26 AM   #10
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From the old OCME system you will need at least the following:

The tag list. Each tag must have an address in the S5. You will have to follow each tag (!) to find out what it does exactly. You can then replicate the same tag in the new system.

User settings (buttons, switches, setpoints) in screens in the OCME system must be identified. You will have to replicate these in the new system.

The functionality of the alarm system. Each SCADA has its own peculiar way of doing alarms. You will have to understand how the OCME alarms gets triggered and how alarms are acknowledged.

The alarm list. Each alarm has an alarm text that must be replicated in the new system.

Is there anything "advanced" in the OCME system ?
(Scripts, batches, recipes, datalogging, other ...)
You may not have to do the same thing again in the same way. But you should at least identify the existence of such things, and make a note if it has to be solved again, maybe in another way.

When you have finished the conversion of the OCME system to the new system of your choice, you can then start thinking about how you can convert the S5 system to S7.

OR .... how about ditching the old S5 AND the OCME SCADA system at the same time ? If you dont, then you are just postponing what must be done it the not so distant future anyway.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 03:38 AM   #11
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Jesper

Thanks for your post mate.

The whole system is going to get ditched eventually but as its a production critical system I can't do it all in one go. I'm going to do it in stages, starting with the SCADA.

Once that's done, I'm going to do a PLC every weekend, or maybe two, (when the plant is shut down) until I've upgraded them all.
Thanks for the info on alarms etc. I'll look into that.

Cheers

JT
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