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Old November 7th, 2018, 11:02 AM   #16
Rson
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I won't give exact pricing, but for example:

A powerflex drive (1HP) is within $100 of a Lenze (with com card) or Siemens (with com card).

A powerflex drive (25HP) is more expensive by up to 1K.

In between those two sizes, there are a couple of cases where a powerflex is cheaper than the other two.

Overall, it is pretty much a wash. If you are getting into larger sized drives, they are ALL expensive - but the powerflex 525 more-so. On the low end (less than 5HP) Powerflex is pretty much the same price (or cheaper considering the specs) as the other drives.

If you want to get into drives without ethernet IP - THEN there is a huge price difference.

Keep in mind - this is my pricing for my company. If you try to buy a powerflex off the shelf, I'm aware the prices are much higher.
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Old November 7th, 2018, 11:25 AM   #17
Gene Bond
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I don't want to get any farther into it than you are comfortable with. I am just curious.

I know the Control Techniques family has a wide scale of features by model. Depending on what you need for a given application. That's the reason I mentioned it.

For example (1hp/460v)(including SI-Ethernet):
M200 (Basic): $540 list
M300 (+ STO): $580 list
M400 (+ I/O & Plain English display: ...
M600 (+I/O & more option slots): ...
M700 (Do it all up to Servo): $1511 list

Again, just an example. List price means nothing compared to other manufacturers, but I just wanted to show the scale of features / cost.

Around my area, nobody (well, hardly anybody) uses the STO function (yet), so they save the money. But, depending on the area and industry, it may be required. I suppose the same is true with the encoder feedback. That's why its an option on the PF525

I don't mean to push a brand, I'm just most familiar with CT.
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Old November 7th, 2018, 11:31 AM   #18
mk42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Bond View Post
Around my area, nobody (well, hardly anybody) uses the STO function (yet), so they save the money. But, depending on the area and industry, it may be required.
off topic, but what do folks in your area do instead of STO? No safety at all, or do you do it with contactors?

To me, STO always seemed like a cost savings vs other safety alternatives
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Old November 7th, 2018, 11:44 AM   #19
Rson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk42 View Post
off topic, but what do folks in your area do instead of STO? No safety at all, or do you do it with contactors?

To me, STO always seemed like a cost savings vs other safety alternatives
Depends on the situation.

In my field, we don't care most of the time. Our motors and moving components are usually completely enclosed (usually fans or pumps) so they are usually only shut off (and locked out) for maintenance. E-stops just coast-to-stop.

I've done motion applications with a Force-guided contactor in front of the VFD and E-stops around the enable/control signals if hard-wired.

Nothing really beats the STO function, though. It is worth the peace of mind, IMO.
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Old November 7th, 2018, 11:54 AM   #20
Gene Bond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk42 View Post
off topic, but what do folks in your area do instead of STO? No safety at all, or do you do it with contactors?

To me, STO always seemed like a cost savings vs other safety alternatives
Sad to say, but most just take away the run command In true safety-related cases, they will pull the disconnect.

And, yes, I agree, STO is a very cost saving method. I recently did a project with some spin-dryers, and the customer insisted on doing it the way the OEM specified 20 years ago, with 2 contactors in front of the drive, controlled by a zero speed switch, a keyed panel switch (where you pull the key from the panel to release the proper key for the machine panels). and a safety relay. Using 2 safety contactors was expensive!
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Old November 7th, 2018, 12:25 PM   #21
wancues
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I went to my suppler and was able to get them to drop the price of the pf525 to within $100 of the abb acs150.
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Last edited by wancues; November 7th, 2018 at 12:29 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2018, 06:27 PM   #22
Sergei Troizky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damica1 View Post
Schneider, ton's of control/monitoring thru Modbus TCP.
The OP clearly asked about Ethernet/IP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helliana View Post
Powerflex 525 if you are trying to stick with Rockwell.
Since when Allen Bradley became low cost?
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Old November 7th, 2018, 09:34 PM   #23
mk42
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Originally Posted by Sergei Troizky View Post
Since when Allen Bradley became low cost?
I think he was saying it's lower cost than some OTHER solutions from AB.

I'm amazed at the number of threads from people looking for a cheaper solution, but not actually willing to change vendors. Not saying that's whats happening here, but its still a post with some value.
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Old November 8th, 2018, 04:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk42 View Post
To me, STO always seemed like a cost savings vs other safety alternatives
It is, but it is also simpler and doesnt stress the DC stage every time you activate an E-stop. Also, at least for Siemens G120 you can get up to PL=e which will be quite expensive with contactors.
IMO STI by VFD is a win-win-win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rson
E-stops just coast-to-stop.
So you actually do have E-stops. And then probably it cust the VFD supply, yes ?
STO also just coast to stop, but it has the advantages mentioned above.

I am guessing that STO on VFDs will be ubiquitous in the near future.
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Old November 8th, 2018, 04:43 AM   #25
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And re VFDs with Ethernet I/P I know these brands:
  • AB (doh !)
  • Siemens G120C. 1.5kW/2hp with Ethernet/IP ability (6SL3210-1KE14-3AF2). List price ~800€. You should be able to get a considerable discount on that.
  • Omron.
  • Automation Direct
  • Yaskawa
  • Danfoss
  • Schneider Altivar
  • SEW Movidrive
  • ..?
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Old November 8th, 2018, 06:04 PM   #26
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Have a look at Bosch/Rexroth EFC3610 or EFC5610 drives with Enet card and a downnloadable AOI or use messaging for AB PLCs . Price of VFD & Enet bcard seems good value .
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Old November 8th, 2018, 06:19 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Dake View Post
Hi Folks,

Thanks for the abundance of response! My standard is the PF525, however I am trying to find something less expensive.

Greg
Add in $100 an hour dicking about - is it worth it?
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Old November 9th, 2018, 08:40 AM   #28
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For simple applications I like Yaskawa 1000 series (A,P,V depending on size and application) for simple applications, I run several blowers and pumps 5HP-500HP over Ethernet IP, takes only a couple minute to start-up, Ethernet/IP card does come seperate but that is only another 5-10 minutes to install.
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Old November 9th, 2018, 08:46 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by janner_10 View Post
Add in $100 an hour dicking about - is it worth it?
Yes, a few minutes reading some forums doesn't quite raise the cost very much. In my recommendation of Yaskawa there is no noticeable start-up time difference between the drives.

I forgot to mention if you go Yaskawa, get the Drive Wizard Industrial software from Yaskawa or your dealer, it is free and makes really quick to start-up, just like may other brands if you are installing multiple drives for the same purpose you can save parameters and transfer from drive to drive, do the tuning from the software and be done.
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Old November 9th, 2018, 03:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlweber View Post
Yes, a few minutes reading some forums doesn't quite raise the cost very much. In my recommendation of Yaskawa there is no noticeable start-up time difference between the drives.

I forgot to mention if you go Yaskawa, get the Drive Wizard Industrial software from Yaskawa or your dealer, it is free and makes really quick to start-up, just like may other brands if you are installing multiple drives for the same purpose you can save parameters and transfer from drive to drive, do the tuning from the software and be done.
What's YOUR price difference though per drive?
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