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Old June 9th, 2017, 02:56 PM   #1
vset
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Allen Bradley 1747-SDN Firmware upgrade issues

I am trying to update the firmware of a 1747-SDN Series B that is currently at firmware version 5.01 to version 8.006 which is the only version newer than 5 that I was able to get from my distributor.

I am using a 1770-KFD with the correct cable to an onboard serial port on a PC running Windows XP. RSLinx sees the SDN card. However, when I go through the process of running the controlflash version 7.00.07 that came with the firmware it comes back with the message says "Multiple assemblies found" and it lists 3 1747-SDN scanner modules even though I am connected directly from the 1770-KFD to the scanner card.

Regardless of which one of the 3 I pick, when I press OK and come to the screen where it shows the current revision as being 5.1, under the new revision nothing is listed for me to select from. The ShowAll button does nothing and also if I click on the button next to the current folder to navigate to the folder that has the firmware files in it, it does not list anything.

The 1747-L551 controller is in program mode.

Any ideas? Does anyone have a version 6.02 firmware for this card that they can provide in case the problem is with the version 8.06 that I got from the distributor?

Thanks.

Update: I went through the same procedure with a newer SDN that was at revision 8.5 and on this one revision 8.6 is listed as an option so does that mean one cannot upgrade directly from 5.01 to 8.6 and I need something above 5.01 to get to 8.6? Any help is appreciated.

Last edited by vset; June 9th, 2017 at 03:17 PM. Reason: New information
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Old June 9th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #2
Geospark
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I believe the 1747-SDN Series B cannot be flashed higher than firmware revision 7.xxx.

Is the "newer" 1747-SDN, that's at r8.005, a Series C by any chance?

I don't have any firmware files to give you but either way its forbidden here to distribute such files. For these scanner modules they do not provide downloadable firmware files. They must be procured via official channels.

Your distributor should be able to confirm or deny my Series limitation suspicions above, or find out for you if they don't know. They should also be able to source a copy of whichever compatible firmware revision you require for this Series B scanner, such as r6.002.

May I ask why you want to flash upgrade it?

Regards,
George
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Old June 9th, 2017, 05:54 PM   #3
Ken Roach
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If the 1747-SDN was built with Version 5, it's certainly a Series B and can't go higher than v7.

North Coast Electric and/or Rockwell Automation's Bellevue office can get that for you.

In general, the most stable releases for the 1747-SDN are:

Series A/B, version 6.002
Series C, version 8.005
Series D, version 9.001
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Old June 9th, 2017, 06:38 PM   #4
vset
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The new one is indeed Series C so this all makes sense then. I did get the 8.005 from Northcoast and that is all they were able to get from Rockwell. I have emailed them again to request it.

The reason I wanted to upgrade this so I can use it as a plug and play test card in a test rig. Else, I have to keep changing the M0/M1 lengths in the PLC advanced I/O config when using this card instead of a newer one.

Thanks for the clarification on the versions.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 04:39 AM   #5
Geospark
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Thanks for confirming that Ken.

I was going to flash two 1747-SDN Series B here a few months back that are in the same chassis. They are at r6.002 and I remembered reading or deriving that r7 restriction from somewhere and that there was a known issue with r7. I probably read it on the KBase or release notes at the time. So I didn't go looking for the r7 firmware files in the end and left them at r6.002.

Seeing as you have reaffirmed my thinking on leaving them as is, by quoting the most stable revisions; I am also most grateful.

My story, for what it's worth...

The reason I was considering upgrading was an issue we were having where a couple of conveyors on a system would unexpectedly start up at random for a second or two. They were running off of PowerFlex 40 drives using 22-COMM-D DeviceNet adaptors. The two that displayed this issue are on two separate scanners in the same chassis with many drives on both scanners. We had inherited this system from an older overseas plant that closed a few years ago. The original integrator had helped get it up and running here. So I contacted him about it and he said it had been an issue with those two conveyors for years but they hadn't resolved it. We were suspecting, at one stage, an overlap in I/O data in the scanners and outputs were being driven in error. Something we both knew was possible with certain firmware, but for r6.002 that they are at, we could find nothing concrete to confirm this may be the case.

I asked had they changed any hardware out? He said no, he didn't think so, unless the plant guys did? So I started with the 22-COMM-D cards, replacing just one at first. I also had a spare PowerFlex 40 drive ready if needs be. As this issue was very intermittent, it took a few weeks to be sure of a result. Low and behold, the issue appeared to be resolved for the conveyor with the new card. So I changed the second card out and waited. It's been about six months now and I've had no reports of any false starts with these conveyors, which is good news.

What the cause was, I cannot say, but there must have been some I/O data error being passed from the DeviceNet adaptors into the drive DSI ports. They were all of a batch when originally fitted, about 60 of them, but only these two presented with these particular symptoms. I have also had to replace about three other adaptors over the last couple of years for complete failure.

So the 1747-SDN Series B r6.002 firmware was not the culprit, as was our thinking for some time. But why they didn't try changing "something" over the years is beyond me? It never hurts and rules suspects out.

Some distributors will go that step or two further for you. Some won't scratch themselves and either make stuff up to get rid of you or fob you off with whatever they happen to have. Sometimes you just have to press them a little. I hope they get you sorted out.

Regards,
George
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Last edited by Geospark; June 10th, 2017 at 04:42 AM.
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Old June 10th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #6
ddnnis
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Have you tried disconnecting the scanner from the rest of Devicenet network and then trying the update?
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Old June 11th, 2017, 08:49 AM   #7
Geospark
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Hardware Series v Firmware Revision

ddnnis,

I'm not sure if you've read through the entire thread, or else you have misunderstood the status quo, or what it is we are talking about altogether?...

If that is the case...

Certain hardware Series of Rockwell products are limited in the features they can support. Their hardware may not be compatible with new features, fixes and enhancements that a newer hardware Series product may support.

Where a hardware Series product does support new features, since its initial release, a newer firmware will be made available and that product will support flashing to the new firmware revision.

When the hardware Series product no longer supports new features that are provided in newer firmware, then that product will not support flashing to the new firmware revision. A change in hardware to the next hardware Series will be required.

Therefore, there will be a cut-off point for firmware revisions that older hardware Series products will support.

Knowing that...

Our friend vset has a 1747-SDN Series B hardware DeviceNet scanner module which is currently at firmware revision r5.001. The 1747-SDN Series B hardware supports the features provided up as far as firmware revision r7.xxx. The 1747-SDN Series B hardware does not support the features provided in firmware revision r8.xxx. To support this firmware, they would need to change to 1747-SDN Series C hardware. So the 1747-SDN Series B hardware does not support r8.xxx firmware and cannot be flashed higher than firmware revision r7.xxx.

They have received r8.006 firmware files from their distributor and were attempting to flash a 1747-SDN Series B at r5.001 firmware to r8.006. The r8.006 firmware will not show up for this hardware Series B product in ControlFlash because, as per the above, r8.xxx is not supported for the 1747-SDN Series B hardware.

vset also happens to have a 1747-SDN Series C which is currently at firmware r8.005 and when they went as far as selecting the new firmware in ControlFlash, they could see the r8.006 firmware as an upgrade option because the 1747-SDN Series C does support r8.xxx firmware.

Althought the 1747-SDN Series B hardware does support up to r7.xxx firmware, there are known issues when using this firmware revision. For this reason, and as pointed out by Ken, the most stable revision you are advised to use is firmware revision r6.xxx, which happens to be r6.002.

vset has gone back to the distributor to request r6.002 firmware files and this is where the topic of this thread is parked. I do hope vset receives those files and can update us that they have successfully flashed their 1747-SDN Series B hardware from r5.xxx to r6.xxx.

I've intentionally and continuously quoted the full product catalog number and Series of this product while emphasising the fact that the Series refers to the "hardware" level of the product. This is important to remember when looking to upgrade firmware revision.

As is the case here, many users will look for the latest firmware revision for a particular product without ever considering the hardware Series and its compatibility with the latest firmware available for the latest hardware Series. It is most often not supported.

Yes, the hardware Series is a most important consideration when looking to flash upgrade a products firmware.

Regards,
George
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Last edited by Geospark; June 11th, 2017 at 08:52 AM.
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Old June 11th, 2017, 10:45 AM   #8
ddnnis
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Geospark,

I apologize, I misunderstood the issue. He mentioned seeing three scanners, I thought maybe something else on the network was preventing the update. As with most control systems, I should have known the solution could not be that simple. The next time I offer a solution I will make sure I fully understand the issue.
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Old June 12th, 2017, 08:16 AM   #9
Geospark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnnis
...I apologize, I misunderstood the issue...
No need for apologies. I am always glad when I can help clear up a misunderstanding. It serves both the poster and the thread in general.

On that note...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnnis
...He mentioned seeing three scanners...
Hopefully this will help clear up your "...seeing three scanners..." misunderstanding and inform you and others of what the cause may be when they come across it...

68014 - ControlFLASH Displays a Multiple Assemblies Found Dialog when Upgrading a 1756 Digital I/O Module and the Upgrade Does Not Complete
Access Level: TechConnect

It tends to happen when there is a case similar to what I have outlined above. That is, a user is attempting to flash a product to a higher firmware revision that is not supported by the products current hardware Series level. In such cases you will tend to see each instance that is listed is identical, as was the case with the three 1747-SDN instances that vset witnessed.

However, the above scenario is not the only reason this popup dialog might appear...

709491 - Multiple Assemblies shown when doing Control Flash on 294E
Access Level: TechConnect

It can popup for valid reasons where there is an option to be made as to which Assembly Instance should be selected in order to successfully flash a product. Once the correct instance is selected, then the flash will be performed on all or any other instances that are eligible for update.

The repetition of identical multiple assembly instances is the key to diagnosing this one.

Regards,
George
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