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Old September 9th, 2019, 10:50 AM   #1
Busch
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Siemens 6ES7214-1AD3-0XB0

Hello everyone,

I am new to this site and to PLC's. I am in a situation and need some knowledge thrown my way. I have a Signode HBX-4300 power strapping machine that has a Siemens 6ES7214-1AD3-0XB0 in it. The PLC has an adjustment potentiometer on it that is not working. I have no output.

I called the manufacturer and they gave me a price on a new PLC already programmed for my machine. There price is a bit more than I want to pay. So I was looking around for other 6ES7214 PLS's. I found some that were cheaper.

My question may seem stupid to some, but I do not know much about PLC's, I am just now learning. But does anyone know if these particular PLC's are all programmed the same. Or are they all reprogrammable.

If they do have to be programmed how would I go about doing so for this model?

Thanks,
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Old September 9th, 2019, 12:01 PM   #2
parky
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They have to be programmed for the application so in essence they are a computer with no program, I assume you contacted the original supplier of the machine, what you are paying for is a PLC + the cost of an engineer to program it ready for you. Also knowing machine OEM's they will charge you considerably more than is necessary even if it is just a serviceable part.
I contacted a machine manufacturer regarding a replacement HMI as the original touch screen had been damaged and the HMI was beyond end of life and not available. The price was double the cost of the new version but not compatible. I uploaded the application to my PC, stripped the screen off the HMI & found the manufacturer of the Touch Element. I contacted them & they told me it was no longer available but they put me onto a company that used to distribute them. They sold me two units at 50.00 each I replaced one & took a copy of the application. One unit now up & running. The cost of the supplier to replace the unit was 5,620.00 what a saving. In your case you may find the OEM has locked the code. If not you could get someone to have a look to see if the code can be uploaded and downloaded to a new processor.
This often becomes a problem, the supplier may have you over a barrel.
It may not be that the unit is faulty. What do the LED's on the front indicate i.e. fault light, run light etc.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 12:09 PM   #3
kalabdel
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My advice is to call someone to service the machine as you are very likely to replace parts that are working fine.


Take a pic of the controller and post it.


You have no output from what? [Deleted wrong info]


A PLC without a program is good for decoration and every program is very specific to the machine it's running and the tasks the machine is required to do. If the PLC is truly damaged your best bet is to buy a used one and transfer the program from old to new.

Last edited by kalabdel; September 9th, 2019 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Correct wrong information
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Old September 9th, 2019, 12:30 PM   #4
Busch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalabdel View Post
My advice is to call someone to service the machine as you are very likely to replace parts that are working fine.


Take a pic of the controller and post it.


You have no output from what? The POTS are for analog inputs, are there any?


A PLC without a program is good for decoration and every program is very specific to the machine it's running and the tasks the machine is required to do. If the PLC is truly damaged your best bet is to buy a used one and transfer the program from old to new.
So the adjustment potentiometer screw broke off. I was told that I could not replace just the pot screw that I would need to get the entire PLC. They said it would come programmed specifically for my machine from the manufacturer. But I did not want to pay what they wanted.

So I would like to purchase another one that is cheaper and download and upload the program in the new one. I do not have a handheld or the proper stuff to do so though.

If I were to program this myself what would I need for the process of downloading and uploading?
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Old September 9th, 2019, 12:47 PM   #5
Steve Bailey
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If you're on friendly terms with your local Siemens distributor, maybe their PLC salesman will be willing to visit and pull the program from the existing unit and send it to the replacement unit he sells you. Don't expect that kind of service from the distributor if you buy the replacement unit from ebay.
Of course there is the possibility that Signode has password protected the program so that you can't extract it from the PLC. In that case you're stuck with paying their price.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 12:53 PM   #6
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You need a communication cable and STEP7 Micro/WIN to start.
I have very limited experience with s7-200 Series PLCs and I'm sure others will know if the latest version of the software (I think 4.0 SP6) is backward compatible.
Then you will need to spend sometime to learn how to upload and download the program.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 02:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
6ES7214-1AD3-0XB0
There is a digit missing in the -1AD3- portion of the part number. Could be an S7-200 or S7-1200.
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Old September 9th, 2019, 02:40 PM   #8
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It's got POTs so I believe its 1AD23.


Out of curiosity which 1200 could it be?
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Old September 10th, 2019, 12:59 AM   #9
sigmadelta
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Quote:
Out of curiosity which 1200 could it be?
I wasn't sure, I just saw an incomplete part number, and didn't have time to research at the moment.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 02:33 AM   #10
parky
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Even though the pot has broken off, I'm surprised that this is a control that would need to be adjusted (assume during production). These are used in commissioning to set a value as a pre-set, are you sure this is the problem as you say you have no output without knowing exactly what the program does, what the symptoms are etc. it would be impossible to give you accurate advice. It could be any of many possibilities. PLC is in stop (no outputs), the pot so some timing is incorrect, another problem causing a particular output not to energise & so on. The pot could be just a red herring ? we would need more information on the actual problem, state of the indicators i.e. run, stop, error etc.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 08:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalabdel View Post
You need a communication cable and STEP7 Micro/WIN to start.
I have very limited experience with s7-200 Series PLCs and I'm sure others will know if the latest version of the software (I think 4.0 SP6) is backward compatible.
Then you will need to spend sometime to learn how to upload and download the program.
MicroWin is up to SP8 for windows XP and SP9 for Windows 7 I believe and not supported in Widows 10 (but many have had good luck getting it installed and running).
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Old September 10th, 2019, 09:28 AM   #12
Busch
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The problem is that the POT is broke off the board.

So as I stated I don't know a lot about plc's. But I have in the past used a handheld to extract a program and upload that program into another plc. Would that work on this model? If so would anyone know what handheld device would do that for this model?

Because the problem is that I do not have a laptop or any type of programming devices that I could use to do so. And I would like to purchase one if there is one out there for this plc.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 12:29 PM   #13
kalabdel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busch View Post
The problem is that the POT is broke off the board.

So as I stated I don't know a lot about plc's. But I have in the past used a handheld to extract a program and upload that program into another plc. Would that work on this model? If so would anyone know what handheld device would do that for this model?

Because the problem is that I do not have a laptop or any type of programming devices that I could use to do so. And I would like to purchase one if there is one out there for this plc.

I don't believe there exist an uploader for this CPU.

You must know what the POT was used for and what effect it had on the machine, what was that?

You can locate someone around you who works with those PLCs and take your PLC to them to transfer the program. I would take it to them before buying anything to make sure you get the one that will work. I don't know how many firmware versions they had and if it could make a difference.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 10:04 PM   #14
kalabdel
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I took apart an S7-200 to have a look at the POTs and you should be able to get any electronic repair shop to replace them for you. Very easy soldering and the POTs are dime a dozen.
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Old September 11th, 2019, 04:36 AM   #15
parky
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This post is getting a little tedious, Are you sure the pot is used, and what for or are you just assuming that because it's broken this is the problem. I would take a deep breath and try & give us some clues as to how the pot is used (not many use this facility), state of the PLC LED's (on the front of the PLC) so far you have not given us any information apart from the pot is broken & no output (from what?).
Is the machine sort of working ? just some function of the control not working correctly?.
Without this information we can only guess & probably give you the wrong advice which could cost you dearly.
I have come across many situations similar to this, it's the PLC not working correctly when it's been a simple case of sensor out of alignment, broken wire, water in junction boxes or a breaker tripped.
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