Does anyone have experience troubleshooting the Hach 1720C turbidimeter?

defcon.klaxon

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Hi all,

Client called saying that the turbidity readout on the HMI is 0.0000 but on the local readout, it shows an actual value. Sure enough when I remoted into the system and went online with the controller, I see exactly 4.000mA. Thus the loop isn't broken (fuse or otherwise) but it's obviously not working properly.

I've never worked on this particular turbidimeter before and I was able to find the manual for it, but thought I'd ask just to see if anyone had seen similar behavior and what might be the cause.

Thanks!
 
from the online manual, it looks like 4mA is normally a 0 NTU reading.

Are there any offsets in effect? Pressing [2] [8] [DIAG] buttons to find out.


What tag is transmitted to the HMI?

Where is the scaling from mA to NTU performed, in the PLC or in the HMI? Can you post the PLC and HMI programs; PDF is best?
 
Sounds like somebody did something at the meter. Pressed a few buttons.
Inquiring minds and all.



I would go through the manual and verify the settings and scaling match what the PLC is expecting.
 
Hi Ken,

It's existing in place; not sure how old but it's been there awhile.

That version is beyond obsolete. When I started in this field about 7 years ago, you could still get the 1720D used on ebay, and now I am seeing customers upgrade away from the 1720E and now using the laser based TU series. I started to comment about your situation with regard to the SC200 (or SC100) settings which can come into play on a 1720D or E, but it appears the 1720C has its own transmitter so does not use the separate transmitter.

It does look like Hach still has a couple of replacement parts for the 1720C.

https://www.hach.com/quick.search-quick.search.jsa?keywords=1720C
 
from the online manual, it looks like 4mA is normally a 0 NTU reading.

Yeah local readout shows NTU but it's not being sent over the ma loop.


Are there any offsets in effect? Pressing [2] [8] [DIAG] buttons to find out.

I'll take a look, they're about an hour away so I'll ask the operator to try.


What tag is transmitted to the HMI?

Not sure what you mean by this, can you clarify?

Where is the scaling from mA to NTU performed, in the PLC or in the HMI? Can you post the PLC and HMI programs; PDF is best?

Scaling is done in ladder logic, as far as HMI it's an ICLinks controller and the display is simply a REAL, the most vanilla thing you can imagine but if you'd like to see a screenshot I can provide.

Scaling
 
That version is beyond obsolete. When I started in this field about 7 years ago, you could still get the 1720D used on ebay, and now I am seeing customers upgrade away from the 1720E and now using the laser based TU series. I started to comment about your situation with regard to the SC200 (or SC100) settings which can come into play on a 1720D or E, but it appears the 1720C has its own transmitter so does not use the separate transmitter.

It does look like Hach still has a couple of replacement parts for the 1720C.

https://www.hach.com/quick.search-quick.search.jsa?keywords=1720C

Thanks for the link.

I got the manual and I found the method of calibrating the mA loop, but just to ask have you ever dealt with these C units and worked on getting a loop accurately working?
 
Sounds like somebody did something at the meter. Pressed a few buttons.
Inquiring minds and all.



I would go through the manual and verify the settings and scaling match what the PLC is expecting.

Operator (very small plant) claims it "just happened" but who knows. This particular client is VERY needy when it comes to anything electrical/instrumentation so literally anything could have happened. Was able to find a manual, working out how to configure this thing.
 
Thanks for the link.

I got the manual and I found the method of calibrating the mA loop, but just to ask have you ever dealt with these C units and worked on getting a loop accurately working?

I have not. What I have seen with the D and E series (plugged into a SC200 controller) is that if someone scanned for devices, the controller would detect the 1720 and if it had been unplugged or moved to a 2nd port on the SC200, the scaling would default to really high numbers like 1000 NTU for 20mA. It also might change the channel assignment, so that the SC200 channel was no longer assigned to the right device.

Glancing at the manual for the 1720C, it looks like a completely different animal and I didn't read into the details much further.

Are you sure you are getting 4mA at the PLC? Some PLC cards can't report a value less than 4mA, so the raw data will go to the minimum when the loop is an open circuit.
 
Glancing at the manual for the 1720C, it looks like a completely different animal and I didn't read into the details much further.

Yeah I'm super familiar with the sc100 and sc200 analyzers, but have never seen this 1720C model before.

Are you sure you are getting 4mA at the PLC? Some PLC cards can't report a value less than 4mA, so the raw data will go to the minimum when the loop is an open circuit.

Fantastic point! I just checked the I/O scaling and it's set to 4-20, NOT 0-20. So that tells us an awful lot just right there, thanks for pointing that out.
 
It has been over 30 years since i worked on one of these instruments!

From the manual:
2.4.5 Recorder Output Span Settings
The recorder output of the turbidimeter can be set to cover
any portion of the 0 - 100 NTU range. This feature allows
the operator to bracket the normal turbidity level with the
recorder output for the desired level of resolution on the
recorder. If the turbidity in the sample normally is 0.5 to
0.7 NTU, the recorder output span can be set for 0 to 1
NTU.
Initially, an output span the operator knows will cover the
range of turbidity in the sample should be selected. With
experience, the operator will be able to determine the best
span for the particular application by monitoring turbidity
levels over time.
Once the proper output span range is determined, use the
numeric keypad and press the REC MIN (recorder
minimum) key to enter the low end of the range into the
display. To enter the top end of the range into the display
use the numeric keypad and press the REC MAX (recorder
maximum) key. For example to enter an output span of O- ,
1 NTU, press 0 REC MIN and 1 REC MAX. Press the
REC MIN and REC MAX keys again to verify the correct
settings.

2.4.6 Recorder Output Calibration
The 1720C Turbidimeter is capable of self-calibrating the
voltage or current limits to ensure a 0-100 mV output is
tr uly0 - 100 mV or a 4-20 mA output is exactly 4-20 mA.
This programmed capability eliminates the need for a volt
meter or milliammeter for output calibration. Calibrating
the recorder output involves a two part procedure. First, a
coarse adjustment to set the voltage (follow step 1 below)
or current limit (follow step 2 below, is completed.
Second, a fine tuning (step 3 below) is performed.
1. If a voltage output has been selected , voltage limits are
calibrated automatically by entering 4 DIAG.
Microprocessor programming routines will measure and
calibrate the output limits. This procedure will set the
output to approximately +/ - 1%. Fine tune the recorder
output by following the procedure in step 3.
2. I f the 4-20 mA output is used, it is self-calibrating by
selecting the 4-20 mA CAL output with the recorder output
selector switch (see Figure 8).
a. Set the 4-20 mA CAL switch to on (closed). Because
only one switch should be on at any one time, all other
switches should be off (open)while the4-20 mA CAL
switch is on during self-calibration. There will be no
recorder output while the 4-20 mA CAL switch is selected.
b. Using the keyboard, enter 3 DIAG.
c. Using the recorder output selector switches, turn the 4-
20 mA CAL switch off and then turn the 4-20 mA on. This
procedure will set the output to approximately + / - 1%. Fine
tu ne the recorder output by following the procedure in
step 3.
3. To fine tune the calibration, press 0 DIAG and observe
The recorder reading. The recorder should indicate the low
end of the chart exactly. If the recorder zero reading is not
correct, proceed as follows:
a. If the recorder zero reads too high, press 8 DIAG. The
recorder reading will move downscale. When the recorder
indicates zero, press any key.
b. If the recorder zero reads too low, press 7 DIAG. The
recorder reading will move up-scale. When the recorder
indicates zero press any key.
Press 1 DIAG and observe the recorder reading. The
recorder should indicate the high end of the chart exactly.
If the recorder reading is not correct. proceed as follows:
a. If the recorder full scale reads too high, press 6 DIAG.
The recorder reading will move downscale. When the
recorder reads full scale, press any key.
b. If the recorder full scale reads too low. press 5 DIAG.
The recorder reading will move upscale. When the
recorder reads full scale, press any key.
 

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