AB journey

Tim

Member
Join Date
May 2002
Location
Indiana
Posts
291
Hi all,
Well the time has come for me to learn Allen Bradley plcs and numerous other products. We just started running our new 2000 ton press and I'm going to be in charge of it. This thing is quite impressive when you open the control cabinets. AB plcs, Mitsubishi plcs, 4 proface hmi's,huge reliance drives, and numerous other controls. I had a little training on the whole system by the Japanese that installed the press, but now its all mine. :eek: I gotta learn this AB stuff, this is my weak point. I'm sure I will be very busy posting questions, so please be patient with me.

I guess I need a starting point. Remember, I've never touched this AB stuff, but I'm confident in myself on learning it. The company who we purchased the press off of gave us a new Dell laptop that has all the AB software on it. Now, I'm not absolutely sure on part numbers for the plc but I believe its a ControlLogix/1756 system. Is that the correct terminology? My first task on this is figuring out how the sensors inputs on the finger transfer system get to the Misubishi plc. Once I can figure this out I can do the Mitsubishi part. The sensors are wired to a Omron DT module which is device net compatible and this goes into a 1756-DNB module on the AB rack. The Mitsubishi has a device net module that's hooked up to the AB device net module. I have the manuals to the module's, but this kind of stuff is what I'm dealing with.

Where should I start? I noticed the Lap Top has a PCMCIA communication card plugged into it. Control Net? :unsure: There is software that looks to be for configuring the different AB modules and software to configure them into the network. :sick: ControlNet, and RSLinx is it? I don't have the specifics because I'm not at work now. So, do I learn the network stuff first to see how this information is processed to the Mits. plc? Device Net? I know most of the basic AB plc bit instructions, but reading and writing data to and from a special module is not something I've looked at much. I know some classes is what would help, but as long as they got someone who is willing to learn it on there own, my company will not spend the money. I'm at a crossroad and would like your input on which direction would be the best.

I have manuals up to my neck and know that I'm gonna have to read, them, just don't know which one to pick up first.
Thank You
Tim
 
First take the pcmcia card out and see what it is...maybe a PCMK, if so that is specific to AB.

Sounds like the system is using Devicenet send data, I would check on the Controllogix module to see if its the master...one of the devices is a master. RSNetworx is the AB program used for DeviceNet, if the Controllogix is the master most of the info for each device including the Mits etc should be shown there...ie setup and if Explicit Messaging is used.

The AB website has an extensive online manual selection PLUS you can order many manuals from AB at no charge. www.reliance.com has an abundance of info about their drives etc, the written manuals for these can be obtained in most cases without charge. I have stacks of them...since this was made overseas I hope you didnt get stuck with, I think its name is, Max???9300??? not AutoMax...its a European model not sold or supported here. I dont work now where I had to deal with that drive and I am getting old so my memory isnt what it was.

Controllogix is a different beast than previous AB stuff so if you can you may want to see about going to a training session.

I can tell you from RECENT experience, take your time and get all the manuals pertaining to each device. With Devicenet involved then goto www.odva.org and send for their Resource CD, maybe order the full specifications, that part I havent gotten to do but I want too.

None of it is that difficult but expect a learning curve...ie allocate time to absorb the info. I get freaked at times and start asking dumb questions because I havent gotten all the information together.

Hope this helps, if you get models, numbers etc and have a problem locating manuals etc let me know and I will see what I can locate.
 
I'd recommend getting familiar with RSLogix or whatever you're using for a programming package first. Your time with this machine will be a lot more productive if you can easily navigate the logic and setup the display(s) to show you the information you need to see. You don't even have to be on line to do this. You can experiment without danger with custom data monitors, data radixes, set your viewing preferences (and there are a lot of options with RSLogix), play around with rung editing, learn how the search function works, and so on.

It's not really necessary at this point to know the ins and outs of the entire instruction set and exactly how the rungs work to run the machine - if you already have some programming experience that will come soon enough.

Just my two cents.
 
As previously state the Controllogix is totaly different from other AB products. IMO most people get lost with the data and memory structure. It is very free form and is tag based. Where most PLC's have and address that you tie a symbol to this platform bypasses the address and just uses the symbol. In your circumstances this may be a small problem if you don't know Japanese, depending on the translation quality. Controllogix also supports multiple programming languages so you could be dealing with SFC, FB, ladder, etc... Don't get discouraged the Controllogix is an excellent PLC and is very powerful. I have enjoyed using them.
The ProFace HMI's are top notch as well. They are also very powerful and flexible. For help with these I recommend Meji Corp. as a point of contact. They have excellent support all over the country and in Canada.
Any way good luck. Expect to spend a lot of time learning the new stuff and post any specific ?'s.
 
It is very free form and is tag based.
This is what I was looking at today. WOW! I kind of like it, "NOT SURE IF I UDERSTAND IT THOUGH". It looks like this control logix is indeed a very powerful plc. I won't be knocking AB anymore. I see why there are so many AB questions on this forum.

Rs,
The card is a PCC AB communication card. I started documenting all the part numbers today and will post them as well as some pics of the plcs and modules. It feels good to have people willing to help with this stuff and I thank you and everyone else that has responded.

Doug-P,
You must have been reading my mind. Yes, I only need to do monitoring and be able to understand this stuff. I'm really hesitant on doing anything that might put this press down. I'll definitely be wanting some more information on monitoring.
Thanks Again,
Tim
 
Originally posted by Tim
...Where should I start?...

BACKUP
BACKUP
BACKUP
BACKUP
BACKUP
BACKUP
BACKUP
BACKUP
BACKUP

HD, MASTER DISK, PROGRAMS

I'm not the one who will say "I told you so!"
 
Tim,

You think the tag based memory structure is impressive. Try looking up UDT (user defined data type) in the help file or manual. Now if you need some high speed data collection for alarms, operating values (by the way the inputs update ASYNCHRONOSLY with the program scan, this can be a VERY important point, think about it!!) or complex recipe handling you will definetly be reluctant to touch another processor.

Darren
 
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Yes the ability to create UDT's is one of the key features in the ControlLogix processor. In most of my recent projects virtually ALL the tags are members of UDT's. It just takes so much work out of writing the program, and done properly makes reading it SO much easier.

The other key feature I use a lot is ability to schedule tasks to run at fixed periodic rates. Again in my recent projects ALL of the logic is run in periodic tasks...the continuous task remains empty.

The only thing I really would like to see is the ability to on-line edit the UDT membership structure. I know this is a big ask.

Ken....do you know if or when this feature is planned for?
 
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Interesting to see that Meiji Corp has become an M-System master distributor. M-System make really good stuff. Would recommend their transducers etc to anyone.
beerchug
 
MITSUBISHI PLC

Now, you sort of know what I'm up against. The pics are only of the press controls alone. There is a feeder system with almost as much controls, more plcs, hmi's, module for this and that etc. etc. as the press.

mits.jpg
 
Aint it fun tho?

As I stated before, dont sweat trying to learn any piece or part all at once. Spend the time to verify you have manuals to EVERYTHING involved. This will expidite troubleshooting in many cases.

Naturally you want to have all the drawings, prints, and a copy of the printed code of the PLC's and Drives PLUS a copy on disk of all the code(s).

Plan on a year learning curve to actually "get to know" the machine. That time period isnt locked in stone, its just a guideline, for some it may take less for others longer. Note I said "get to know" not know, machines this size its difficult to know all of it. The idea is to be able to "maintain" the machine at first and learn about the invidual components over time. To shorten the "learning process" it may be helpful if you could take a class on the Controllogix and PowerFlex.

Having the documentaion IMHO is a necessity.
 
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