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Old September 24th, 2020, 08:41 AM   #1
Rson
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Terminal ID - pin# or wire#

Just taking a poll to see how people's panels are designed or what they tend to see most often. I have a feeling using the wire# as the terminal # is a purely automotive thing.

I was previewing Solidworks Electrical recently and the electrical designer from Solidworks was showing me how the software worked. When it came time for the terminals - I asked if they could make the terminal ID the same as the wire#. She seemed pretty taken aback - like the idea never occurred to her.

How do you handle terminal strips? Pin # or Wire #?
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Old September 24th, 2020, 08:47 AM   #2
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No, you are correct. Using the wire # as the terminal number is very much a common thing.

Now if it’s a connector, plug/receptacle, I use the PIN numbers the device manufacturer uses.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 08:55 AM   #3
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I do it both ways, but by wire number is usually only if there is one strip of terminals and only occasionally if there are multiple strips.

If it's by wire number I really try to get the wires in numerical order on the terminals.

If there is more than one terminal strip then each will need identified (X1-, X2-, etc) and then each terminal or wire number.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 10:09 AM   #4
rdrast
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Everything I design has terminals just in a 1-whatever numerical sequence. It makes things a lot easier later on if there are multiple terminals feeding, say 24VDC out to the field. I may have 50 24V feeds, but (as long as the installers follow my conduit pull sheet) I know for a fact that Limit_Switch_Y is supposed to get 24VDC from Terminal 134.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 10:45 AM   #5
Rson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrast View Post
Everything I design has terminals just in a 1-whatever numerical sequence. It makes things a lot easier later on if there are multiple terminals feeding, say 24VDC out to the field. I may have 50 24V feeds, but (as long as the installers follow my conduit pull sheet) I know for a fact that Limit_Switch_Y is supposed to get 24VDC from Terminal 134.
Great point. If I have 15 of the same number - I can't always find which wire is on which terminal block.
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Old September 24th, 2020, 11:12 AM   #6
g.mccormick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrast View Post
Everything I design has terminals just in a 1-whatever numerical sequence. It makes things a lot easier later on if there are multiple terminals feeding, say 24VDC out to the field. I may have 50 24V feeds, but (as long as the installers follow my conduit pull sheet) I know for a fact that Limit_Switch_Y is supposed to get 24VDC from Terminal 134.

Yes IF they follow th pull sheet. I hate when you go through all of the trouble to assign per terminal numbers, create the pull sheet, then they just plug them in wherever. I've also ran into this when Ive designed/built in 3level terminal blocks with siglnal on top, +pwr middle, and -pwr on bottom row. The idea being you should know exactly where something is plugged in. Electricians just run all of the +pwr wires to the power distributions terminals.....
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Old September 24th, 2020, 04:08 PM   #7
Gene Bond
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IMO, There's nothing worse than a terminal number being different than a wire number.

If you happen into a machine where someone (but noone who will admit it) has 'worked' on it previously, and either pulled wires and capped them, or moved them to bypass something... You are lost.
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Old September 25th, 2020, 12:52 AM   #8
GaryS
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The way is usually do it similar to the plc addressing
If I am working with a plc then
Input I for Input Rack Number Slot Number Input Number
Input Rack 1 Slot / Module 2 and Input 24 would be I010224
Output O for output Rack Number Slot Number Output Nmber
Output Rack 2 slot / Module 4 Output 25 would be O020425
If it’s power supply +24 -24 / 24Com if multiple power supplies are used then +24_2 ( Power Supply number )
If the local installer needs to be told the exact wire terminal maybe they should look for a different career.
Those number follow the wire throughout the plant
If you have multiple processors then you precede the number with the designated plc number.
If the field wire pass through another device relay contacts, switched the last numbers ( Input / Output number ) follow starting at 50 and go up.
If I see 51 then I know that the original source for the wire is input / output is 1 I Then I know where to look on the racks
Analog signals I usually just number the outer jacket with the plc termination as above and / or the device name.
For motor connections I use the motor number T1 T2 T3 Gr
Motor 25 would be M25T1, M25T2 M25T3 M25Gr
Simple and easy to follow.

I have seen some really completed numbering systems but to many number makes it very hard to understand.
If I have a large system with multiple terminal blocks I or if I feel it’s necessary then I will do a layout of the terminals and show the wire numbers next to them
Whatever works for you the important thing to stay consonant
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Old September 25th, 2020, 02:28 AM   #9
Phil Buchanan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdrast View Post
Everything I design has terminals just in a 1-whatever numerical sequence. It makes things a lot easier later on if there are multiple terminals feeding, say 24VDC out to the field. I may have 50 24V feeds, but (as long as the installers follow my conduit pull sheet) I know for a fact that Limit_Switch_Y is supposed to get 24VDC from Terminal 134.
This is my preference also. It helps a lot in tracing down field wiring problems and being able to isolate circuits for troubleshooting.

I like to use disconnect terminal blocks for things going into the field also.

If it's a coil for example i like to use the double level terminals labeled like this and i can isolate and check most field device from the panel with ease.
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Old September 25th, 2020, 02:36 AM   #10
Phil Buchanan
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I have also had customers request the wire number and the terminal number be the same bu that the terminal number be integrated into the wire # schema.

This method requires more work all around but solves a lot of issues and is better than the 1-whatever terminal # method and the termial # is the same as wire# method when the terminal number being the wire number is done in such a way that common feeds of the same potential can not be isolated.
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Old September 25th, 2020, 01:45 PM   #11
Mike Lamond
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One of the clients from a previous job, a large industrial plant, uses a scheme which assures that, throughout the entire plant, every wire has a unique number. Every drawing set, for plans, equipment, control panels, etc., has five digit number. Control panels within a process area are assigned a sequential single letter code. On the electrical schematic, each circuit is numbered according to its point of origin on the drawing, consisting of the letter code, two-digit sheet number, one-letter column on sheet, and two-digit row number. A footnote on each sheet states that all wire markers will have the five digit drawing number preceding the wire number from the schematic.

Terminals, however, are numbered sequentially within each terminal group, such as TB-3-20. An extra number identifies the level on multi-circuit terminal blocks. Terminal markers carry only the position and level, while separate markers identify the grouping. The schematics, in turn, identify the specific terminal position for each wire.

Last edited by Mike Lamond; September 25th, 2020 at 01:47 PM.
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