1756-DHRIO to PanelView+ 7

khelza

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Sep 2015
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I have a customer with network layout containing DH+ and Ethernet, connected with a 1756-DHRIO module. The network contains several SLCs, Compact & Control Logix PLCs, PV Standards, and PV+ HMIs.

They are SLOWLY upgrading all PLCs and HMIs to Ethernet (CLX & PV+), so there will be the need to have the existing DH+ be able to communicated with the new Ethernet, until they are all upgraded.

There are currently several SLC 5/04s that MSG back and forth through the existing 1756-DHRIO module to a CompactLogix and other devices on the Ethernet network, and well as to other 5/04s on the DH+ network.

There are also several PV550 on the DH+ network, which currently communicate with the 5/04s. Only one of thoses 5/04s is currently being upgraded to a CLX, and two (2) PV550s are currently being upgraded to PV+7. So the new PV+7s need to be able to communicate with the same 5/04s they did before, as well as the new CLX.

The question is: Should the existing DHRIO module be used to allow the new PV+7s to still be able to communicate with the 5/04s and also the new CLX, or should a new DHRIO module be purchased to relieve high-traffic issues.

I have never worked with a DHRIO module before, but the RSWho configuration shows that there are 16 devices on the DHRIO CHA, so it would seem that it is handling a lot of connections already.

A rockwell tech mentioned that they've seen multiple DHRIO modules in the same chassis, but not on the same network. I have not been able to find any documentation that details that.

I am looking for unforeseen issues, best practices and capabilities/limitations of using the DHRIO module to allow the PV+7s to communication with DH+ and Ethernet.

PV+6s were looked at because they apparently have a DH+ adapter that can be purchased in addition, however, PV+6s are being phased out in the new future, are a much higher cost than the PV+7s, and the customer would prefer to have the most current, or longest future-supported devices installed. However, PV+7s do not have the DH+ adapter option, so that's why the DHRIO is being looked at as an option.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated! (y)
 
Should the existing DHRIO module be used to allow the new PV+7s to still be able to communicate with the 5/04s

Unfortunately, it will not.

While RSLinx Classic can browse down from Ethernet to a ControlLogix backplane through a 1756-DHRIO onto a DH+ network, RSLinx Enterprise cannot.

RSLinx Enterprise is the only data server for A-B devices that the PanelView Plus supports.

Your only practical options are the purchase of PV+6 terminals with the DH+ interface option board, or planning of the upgrades so that all the controllers and all the HMIs all go to Ethernet at the same time.
 
RSLinx Enterprise is the only data server for A-B devices that the PanelView Plus supports.

Can RSLinx Classic license be downloaded to a PV+7?

Your only practical options are the purchase of PV+6 terminals with the DH+ interface option board, or planning of the upgrades so that all the controllers and all the HMIs all go to Ethernet at the same time.

Unfortunately neither of those would be practical for this application as:

1: the PV+6 are near end of life, and will soon not be supported, which has caused the cost of it to be much more expensive than a PV+7, so the customer wants the latest, longest-supported hardware, and obviously, at the lowest price

2: the network is too big to upgrade all at once. We're talking 8 or more SLCs and 9 or more PV Standards

-------

A prosoft module was suggested, but we wanted to stick with Rockwell products if possible.
 
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...I am looking for unforeseen issues, best practices and capabilities/limitations of using the DHRIO module to allow the PV+7s to communication with DH+ and Ethernet...

I'm afraid that is not a runner...

46228 - Can RSLinx Enterprise communications bridge from CIP protocol to PCCC protocol
Access Level: TechConnect

RSLinx Enterprise, which is the data server running on the PanelView Plus 7 terminal, does not support bridging from Ethernet to DH+ (PCCC protocol). It only supports CIP to CIP protocol communications such as EtherNet/IP to ControlNet. Rockwell should have known to inform you of this. The PanelView Plus 7 terminals must be directly placed on the same network as the devices it needs to communicate with. As the PanelView Plus 7 terminals do not support any DH+ communications modules, it cannot directly reach from Ethernet to DH+ (PCCC) using any available Allen Bradley equipment.

However, using a third-party interface converter may be the "route" to take here. Prosoft have been producing reliable interface equipment for years to assist in otherwise impossible AB communications options during migration phases. One such interface is the "EtherNet/IP to Allen Bradley Remote I/O or DH+ Gateway", or...

AN-X2-AB-DHRIO

Hopefully that will suit your needs in the interim?

EDIT: Posted without reading last 2 replies.

Regards,
George
 
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George's recommendation of the QTS/Prosoft AN-X module is a very good one; they are able to use subtle configuration tweaks to do what the native RSLinx Enterprise drivers won't do.

Read this white paper carefully, and contact Prosoft to get an update on how the most modern PV+7 / RSLinx Enterprise and AN-X firmware might work together.

http://www.prosoft-technology.com/kb/article.php?id=573

While the AN-X devices are an additional hardware expense, they do allow the project to achieve its goal of using the most modern PV+ hardware.

In addition, they can probably be re-purposed in the future to accomplish other DH+ migration and bridge functions, as you roll out additional controller changeovers.

The original hardware provider (QTS) and the supporting vendor (Prosoft) are both closely allied with Rockwell, so the risk of finger-pointing is minimized. The AN-X module and the Rockwell 1756-RIO module actually share significant common hardware and firmware developed by QTS.
 
Rockwell should have known to inform you of this. The PanelView Plus 7 terminals must be directly placed on the same network as the devices it needs to communicate with.
...
AN-X2-AB-DHRIO
...
Hopefully that will suit your needs in the interim?
...

We were originally looking at the Prosoft DHRIO module, and called Rockwell to advise if this would work, or suggest an equivalent Rockwell product, and they suggested the 1756-DHRIO module... A bit comical, but mostly just a waste of my time! šŸ¤¾šŸ™ƒ

Is it possible to download a RSLinx Classic license to a PV+7 to resolve the Enterprise limitations?
 
George's recommendation of the QTS/Prosoft AN-X module is a very good one; they are able to use subtle configuration tweaks to do what the native RSLinx Enterprise drivers won't do.

Read this white paper carefully, and contact Prosoft to get an update on how the most modern PV+7 / RSLinx Enterprise and AN-X firmware might work together.

Thank you! I will give this a look-through and so far, it's looking like the best option if it does work.
 
khelza said:
...if it does work.

I'm pretty confident it will. The AN-X will map the DH+ data to the EtherNet/IP side so the PanelView Plus terminal will only be exchanging CIP data and will know nothing of the DH+ side of things.

Also, this example architecture from their website, which shows a PanelView Plus terminal communicating via the AN-X to a DH+ controller, would further strengthen the case...

Screenshot_20180316-202037.png


G.
 
It's significant that the Prosoft graphic shows a PLC-5. That whitepaper is specific about the differences between PLC-5 and SLC-500 style commands with regard to data block sizes, and suggests that the details may be different in FactoryTalk View 8.x and later.

That's why I recommend asking for a specific update from Prosoft about the PV+7 and the AN-X.

Is it possible to download a RSLinx Classic license to a PV+7 to resolve the Enterprise limitations?

It is not. While RSLinx Classic can be used as an OPC data server for FactoryTalk View ME on a desktop Windows application, there is no way to install, license, or run RSLinx Classic on a PV+ terminal.
 
A specific update from Geosoft...

Ken Roach said:
...That's why I recommend asking for a specific update from Prosoft about the PV+7 and the AN-X...

Ken,

I had not read that technote yesterday as I honestly hadn't the time. Having now read it today, I can see what you are referring to as needing an update from Prosoft (or Geosoft). So I've dug a little deeper...

As we can see, that technote is from 2015, and did indicate that they were working closely with Rockwell to introduce native support for DH+ to EtherNet/IP in RSLinx Enterprise from FactoryTalk View Studio v8 onwards. As v8 has been released for some time now, it would be very likely that their collaboration efforts have since been introduced. With that in mind...

If we look at the "Specifications" tab on the AN-X webpage I linked we can see that their latest offering specifically refers to supporting the feature discussed in the technote. This page outlines each mode that the AN-X can be configured for. If we read all of the HMI mode section, and the last bullet point of the DH+ mode section, we can confirm that using certain versions of software will allow bridging DH+ to EtherNet/IP from a PanelView Plus 7 to an SLC 5/04 and that this feature is specifically intended to facilitate migrating terminals from DH+ to EtherNet/IP while retaining DH+ controller communications...

Screenshot_20180317-160847~2.png


If we go to the "Downloads" tab, and view the AN-X Datasheet, we can also read the HMI and DH+ mode sections which reaffirms the above. Note how both HMI and DH+ mode state in their last bullet point -

Support for DH+ to EtherNet/IP PanelView upgrades on PLC5 or SLC networks

Having two modes support the same feature seems a little confusing? You would automatically assume that HMI mode would be the natural choice here? But, it appears not...

If we stay on the "Downloads" tab, and ignore the "HMI Files" (I've already looked there: manual is 2013 and predates technote) and instead look to the "DH+ Files". There are several PDFs available, including the technote you pointed us to TN143269-001 (July 2015), but also TN171004-002 (Jan 2018). This very recent TN specifically steps us through using the now available RSLE feature (Prosoft AN-X2-AB-DHRIO Connected PCCC Devices) which allows us to add an SLC controller connected via an AN-X2-AB-DHRIO as a PCCC based controller. It also refers to the PanelView terminal needing to be at firmware revision 8.1 or higher...

Screenshot_20180317-224854.jpg


Note the "Note" in brackets under the first screenshot image -

Note, this selection is for use with the DH+ firmware ONLY and cannot be used with the RIO HMI firmware

This apparently means that in order to use this feature, you must configure the AN-X for DH+ mode, and not HMI mode.

As this new feature allows us to add an SLC as a PCCC device, under "Ethernet SLC devices"; this means that RSLE now knows what protocol it is preparing its data for and so will keep data packet sizes to within the PCCC protocol specifications. No program code changes should now be required to migrate DH+ HMI terminals to EtherNet/IP.

Just to come full circle on this collaborated feature and see what Rockwell might have to say on all this, I've had a look on the Knowledgebase and found this...

772329 - What's new in RSLinx Enterprise version 5.8
Access Level: Everyone

I'm sure Rockwell won't mind me advertising obscure but useful features here...

Rockwell Automation said:
New hardware support - RSLinx Enterprise v5.80.00 (CPR 9 SR 8) supports Prosoft Technology AN-X2-AB-DHRIO device with the DH+ operating mode.
If a PLC-5 or a SLC-5/04 controller is connected to an AN-X2-AB-DHRIO device via DH+ network, RSLinx Enterprise v5.80.00 supports online communication with the controller after manual configuration in the Communication Setup editor.
For more details, see user manuals of Prosoft Technology AN-X2-AB-DHRIO.

So, once you are using RSLinx Enterprise v5.80 or later, and PanelView Plus firmware revision 8.1 or higher, then the AN-X, using DH+ mode, will support online runtime communications between RSLE on EtherNet/IP terminals and legacy PCCC based controllers. The AN-X also supports up to 8 PanelView Plus terminals on the same network. So the 2 x PanelView 550 could be migrated to PanelView Plus 7 EtherNet/IP terminals and still both have full access to all or any DH+ controllers they need to communicate with, all through the one AN-X interface. This is achieved using the "IP Alias" feature. Further legacy terminals could be added to this same interface later if doing a phased migration.

These Encompass Partnerships really are a worthy endeavour.

That's some pretty conclusive information there, which is good news for our friend.

Regards,
Geosoft
 

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