Physical Input Controlled HMI Solution

Hi everyone fairly newbie PLC guy here,

I made a previous post about asking this specifically in TwinCATs "Visualization", but I'm starting to think I need to look at alternate options, if they even exist.

Anyways, this may sound counterproductive, but I'm looking for an HMI software solution compatible with a Beckhoff C6015-0010 Embedded PC (Running Windows C.E. 7) that will let me navigate the display using an encoder and physical push buttons, rather than keyboard/mouse.

Let me provide some background information. The PLCs interface was originally going to be a touch screen display, allowing for the user to set background parameters, and monitor the machine, but still control the machines "live" values using physical buttons, switches, and encoders.

Unfortunately, the buyer has come back and asked that we not use a touch screen on this initial model, but still use the display we picked so that we don't need to change that for future products that WILL use the touch capability.

This has put me in an awkward situation where I have complex display designed to use a keyboard/mouse/touchscreen that needs to be controlled using pushbuttons/encoders/switches. (Yes I know how ironic it is that I'm using the very types controls that the HMI replicates to navigate the HMI)

I guess my question is, is this possible? And if so what HMI software solutions could I possibly find it on.

I'm open to people just listing different kinds of HMI software, as I've found it pretty hard to find different ones. Right now, I've looked into TwinCATS Visualization, AdvancedHMI, and an HTML/JS one called TAME (TwinCAT ADS Made Easy). But these options seem to not work due to various compatibility or feature issues.

The machine is sort of a "works alone" kind of thing, so I don't think some of the heavy duty SCADA stuff would really be viable just due to prices I've seen.

Any advice from the versed HMI makers around here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

How does the user interact with the encoder ?
Is it supposed to be some kind of scroll wheel ?
The mouse and keybaord interaction is normally not handled by the HMI software, but by Windows.
How about an industrial grade trackball and associated buttons ?
And maybe a number-pad for entering setpoints etc.
Something like this: http://www.nsi-be.com/industrial-ke...andheld-keyboard-with-38mm-optical-trackball/

I would love to just once make a machine with an interface like this:
http://www.nsi-be.com/marine-military-solutions/military-control-grips/military-control-grips/

It will likely need to be custom. You would need Windows code (VB, C#, ...) which monitors encoder changes and push-buttons and translates that into desired mouse positions on the screen which you set via Windows functions.

I have never used CE and don't know what software tools exist. If Win7, Advanced HMI (VB.net code) would be a good starting point. I recall that Microsoft recently renamed CE and it is getting closer to regular Windows. If you have the option of going to a later OS version, that might help.

Jesper,

My thoughts were to use an encoder to "tab" through the available selections on the menu. Use a confirm button to select that option, and a cancel button to go back in the menu.

I know the mouse clicking is handled by windows, my difficulty was in finding an HMI software that allowed me to use other forms of input connected through the PLC instead of keyboards and buttons connected through the PLC.

P.S. the reason is that this iteration of the device is a somewhat large handle held device. It's a 7' display, along with buttons and encoders to control the machine. You can see how a keyboard could get out of hand. I'm toying with the idea of using an industrial "finger joystick" mouse, similar to the famous red ones that come with Lenovo laptops.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9426
Not this one specifically, but its just a good visual representation of what I'm talking about.

I'm trying to avoid that though if possible.

RocketTester,

That's kind of what I expected after having done my research thus far. I wanted some confirmation from others though since I'm a newbie. I figured I could do it if I directly accessed windows, but it seems almost more of a hassle than just sticking a small thumb mouse on the thing.

One of the issues with the device was that we know the users prefer to use encoders and buttons due to the use of industrial gloves, as well as their age group not jiving with newer digital tech (thus why the touch screen was shot down for now).

Thanks for the info!

Could you use a standard HMI (touch available, but not use) and your encoder to a high speed counter to increment a selection value in your PLC. A couple pushbutton for "Select" or "Cancel". Then with some logic and PLC Controlled Screen changes and Object visibility or State controlled by bits you could indicate which menu button you would be selecting.

I can imagine doing something like that with a simple PLC and any available HMI or HMI software, since the logic doing it would all be in the PLC. And having it easily upgraded to touch at a later time.

Have you checked CP62XX or CP66XX series yet?

https://www.beckhoff.com/english.asp?industrial_pc/cp66xx_xxxx_0020.htm

https://www.beckhoff.com/english.asp?industrial_pc/cp66xx_xxxx_0020.htm

Tharon,

It's funny you mention that. I had actually thought about using that technique.

http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=112241

However, I ran into the same issue of trying to find a way to change the visualization without keyboard/mouse input. I'm currently sifting through twinCAT methods and functions to try and find something I could call in an ST Program.

I've been searching on and off into this technique, if you already know of a way, I'd love if you could share.

Mara,

Unfortunately, we've already decided upon and are locked into using the C6015-0100 (for this short term project at least). The reason being its particularly small size. It's really not within our time constraints to attempt to order another platform.

Tharon,

Upon further investigation I may be able to just barely make it work...
Thanks for reminding me of that path!

I'll update when/if I get something working.

Take a look at the industrial, pointing devices in the link below. They replace the mouse, so it will be easy to make them work with any HMI or computer.

https://www.spartonre.com/ruggedkeyboards/rugged-pointingdevices/

You could go down the path of the push buttons and encoders, but my guess is that it will be a lot of time. That may not be easy for the next person to replace, or upgrade in the future (either the PLC or the HMI).

I'd stick with the industrial pointing devices.

arlenjacobs,

We actually use one of those spartan pointers on one of our other devices. The problem is that most of the users complained about using it.

The touchscreen will eventually replace whatever monstrosity I may have to create here. It's also quite simple to write the touchscreen portion. I already got through probably more than 75% of it in the couple of days I worked on it, so I'm not too worried about the future or time sync of the method I use now.

The pointer isn't out of the question either. I just want to explore alternate options first for user preference sake.

iloverde said:

However, I ran into the same issue of trying to find a way to change the visualization without keyboard/mouse input. I'm currently sifting through twinCAT methods and functions to try and find something I could call in an ST Program.

Click to expand...

Okay. In Twincat 3 you can do this with the frames. See links below and chapter "switching visualization pages within frames".

https://infosys.beckhoff.com/englis.../1033/tc3_plc_intro/9007199390876811.html&id=

https://infosys.beckhoff.com/englis.../1033/tc3_plc_intro/9007199390876811.html&id=

Instead of buttons on the screen you can create integer variable to switch frames on screen. For example if this variable has value "1", then frame 1 is visible. If value is "2" then frame 2 is visible and so on...

iloverde said:

Unfortunately, the buyer has come back and asked that we not use a touch screen on this initial model, but still use the display we picked so that we don't need to change that for future products that WILL use the touch capability.

This has put me in an awkward situation where I have complex display designed to use a keyboard/mouse/touchscreen that needs to be controlled using pushbuttons/encoders/switches. (Yes I know how ironic it is that I'm using the very types controls that the HMI replicates to navigate the HMI)

Click to expand...

There is a limit to what you should have to do for a client before you have to at some point let sense prevail and say "no, that's the wrong thing to do" this sounds like it....especially if they have contracted you as the specialist, that's what you are there for, to advise the best way of doing things, this isn't it and it sounds like you know it.

I would imagine whatever you design will not be intuitive, a compromise and at worst unusable, but good luck anyway !