OT. Hiring, keeping and being and emplyee.

Hello guys and gals,


I have been researching the last couple of days for a formula for hiring and keeping employees long term.
There are plenty of top 10 lists or top 10 questions/criteria to successful recruiting and then there's Malcom Galdwell who argues that the best way is to just hire them and try them out.



I listen to a writer ( i think) on the radio advocating for hiring on basis of experience, education, references and assessments and disregard one on one interviews to avoid making an emotional and possibly the wrong decision.


What keeps you for 10 years or more in your job?
How do you hire new recruits?
Do you have a formula that works for you? If yes please share.




Thanks

kalabdel said:

What keeps you for 10 years or more in your job?
How do you hire new recruits?
Do you have a formula that works for you? If yes please share.

Click to expand...

Can't answer #1 - never been at any single place for over 5 years. I get tired of one place and move on. Being on my own, working in many different shops is highly preferred.


As for #2 when I did interview people I didn't look only at experience. Yes, they had to have basic knowledge and experience, but I looked more at their potential and attitude towards advancing in the field.


My formula - having a gut feeling that they would work out. And mostly that was correct.


And, when you do hire someone follow this I read years ago:


Boss 1: What if we hire and train someone and they quit and move on?


Boss 2: What if we don't?

unless you have a really good reference or know the person its hard to know. Its a gut feeling but I have interviewed people and they have done great but faltered not long after. It usually doesn't take long before they show their true colors.

Some comments that may or may not help about:

"What keeps you for 10 years or more in your job?"

I have never stayed at a company for more then 5 years.

But what encourages me and what keeps me for that long is the fact that i can help in growing the company, and actually see the growth/be a part of it. I find myself joining newer or smaller companies, since this is where i get the most satisfaction, because you can grow it at such a rapid rate.
This is the time where new employees are coming on training and such, getting them geared to hold the customers that are being obtained.
There is a take away from that too i have found, some reasons i have left a few companies are:

1. An owner/manager not able to calculate your value. So we end up not being able to agree on a future wage.

2. Someone not qualified gets put in charge of a group that directly affects the group i am in charge of or are working for.

3. Profits getting siphoned off to support some other area so that our area cannot continue to improve over time (a big one).

4. And Last the exciting jobs stop being quoted since the risk needs to stay low, which is understandable, and probably shouldnt even be on this list, but it does play a small role. Since we do need to stay challenged

The "easiest" way to get people to stay is to pay well. Nine times out of ten, when I hear someone complaining about how their guys are leaving to go somewhere else, the employee got a raise by moving on.

I've been in my job 10 years because my boss trusts me to do my job the way I think it needs to be done, and he gives me the freedom to put my family first. I know that if he asks me to do something extra, it's important, and he knows that if I say no, I mean it.

kalabdel said:

What keeps you for 10 years or more in your job?

Click to expand...

You would think this would be simple, but I haven't even made the 5 year mark at any place I have worked at. Treat'em well, like you actually want them on the team and don't give them reasons to leave, have yet to see companies get this.

• If you hire young, then as they grow pay them market rates. 3-5% raises can't compete with 15-20% from job hoping.
• Decent benefits
• Have some type of compensation for weekend work and long stints of travel
• Build an environment people want to be part of, strong leadership and core values. It's easy to bail on a bad manager even if the company is a good place to be.
• Don't burn your people out, you work for them as much as they work for you.
• Provided opportunities to learn and grow, don't get in the habit of type-casting.

kalabdel said:

How do you hire new recruits?

Click to expand...

• Don't expect HR to magically find good controls people
• Actively participate in college/technical college internships, COOPs, career fairs
• Networking at industry events
• Recruiters
• Offer relocation packages that will make experienced people actually consider it. $15K- $20K net minimum, remember Uncle Sam is getting his too and these people have homes to sell and family decisions to make. $5K gross for a U-haul is insulting.

kalabdel said:

Do you have a formula that works for you? If yes please share.

Click to expand...

I'm just a do-er

mk42 said:

The "easiest" way to get people to stay is to pay well.

Click to expand...

I think that is valid for the first 3-4 years but if you want someone for the long-haul there has to be more than money involved. ~3 years in, you gain clarity on how the company and management actually function, and how business really is. Honeymoon is over and this is the point the company has to be it's most attractive for an employee to see themselves being part of it for the long haul. I've taken pay-cuts and bailed because long-haul didn't seem like a good fit.

kalabdel said:

What keeps you for 10 years or more in your job?

Click to expand...

I always thought it was something with me that 5 years was too much at one place. I have dealt with businesses that have had the same salesperson for over 30 years, same desk, same building, same, same, same.



Seems almost everyone in this field has the same 'policy' as me though.


Maybe it has to do with IQ?

HR - my pet hate - horrendous retards!

I've never worked anywhere over 3 years. My main reasons for leaving a job were:
-money
-management that continuously disregarded what controls/electrical employees said. Like if someone said a project would take 3 days, he would insist it could be done in 1.
-being taken for granted. We all know that in this field, we will be the ones called in on a night/weekend/forced to travel on short notice. I've had expense reports not paid back for several months, traveling until 2am then expected to be in the office at 8am, refusal to pay for hotels, not to mention expected to do all this with a smile on my face.
-No time or budget for training, I'm expected to train myself but no extra time is allowed on projects to give me to time get up to speed with new technology used on a a project

I'm now looking to move and I'd say the things that are making me leave are:

- Meet market rates and don't assume a yearly raise meets it...
- Offer flexibility in every way possible.
- Keep track of what extras the employee does that are not rewarded and reward them or strike up a deal to compensate. Call outs are an example.
- Don't meet him with resistance to change whenever he suggests an obvious solution to an ignored problem.

I don't think that keeping someone for 10 years is easy and you'd have to be able to offer a work environment that is challenging and where the person grows and contributes rather than doing the same day in, day out. But, many times, the employees that leave to grow may come back to grow with you in a different position.

mk42 said:

The "easiest" way to get people to stay is to pay well. Nine times out of ten, when I hear someone complaining about how their guys are leaving to go somewhere else, the employee got a raise by moving on.

I've been in my job 10 years because my boss trusts me to do my job the way I think it needs to be done, and he gives me the freedom to put my family first. I know that if he asks me to do something extra, it's important, and he knows that if I say no, I mean it.

Click to expand...

I've kinda cheated. I was at my first real job for 12 years, and am coming up on 18 for my present job. But I take programming jobs on the side, volunteer with a few groups that do stuff that is NOTHING like my day job ... so that gives me some of the variety that I don't always get at my day job.

I'd agree with paying 'well'. At least 10% above average for your industry/area.

The interview gives you a practical example of how the person will interact with you and your team. There are exceptions ... where an incompetent talks his way in, or a really good candidate completely freezes and can't speak at all. But my limited experience shows that your 15 minutes with the candidate is an estimate of how they will work with you.

But after you're paid 'enough', including benefits, then other stuff becomes more important. Like having your boss trust you to do your job, and backing you up when you decide to 'do it right' instead of 'do it cheap'. And you get some small amount of appreciation for a job well done, doing stuff on weekends, and generally going above and beyond 'the minimum'.

Paully's5.0 said:

You would think this would be simple, but I haven't even made the 5 year mark at any place I have worked at. Treat'em well, like you actually want them on the team and don't give them reasons to leave, have yet to see companies get this.

• If you hire young, then as they grow pay them market rates. 3-5% raises can't compete with 15-20% from job hoping.
• Decent benefits
• Have some type of compensation for weekend work and long stints of travel
• Build an environment people want to be part of, strong leadership and core values. It's easy to bail on a bad manager even if the company is a good place to be.
• Don't burn your people out, you work for them as much as they work for you.
• Provided opportunities to learn and grow, don't get in the habit of type-casting.

• Don't expect HR to magically find good controls people
• Actively participate in college/technical college internships, COOPs, career fairs
• Networking at industry events
• Recruiters
• Offer relocation packages that will make experienced people actually consider it. $15K- $20K net minimum, remember Uncle Sam is getting his too and these people have homes to sell and family decisions to make. $5K gross for a U-haul is insulting.

Click to expand...

Yup. +1 on that.

Interns are like 16 month interviews. If that person does not fit with your team after 16 months, they never will. Summer students (4 months) less so since by the time you train them to be useful, they're gone.

I've been involved in hiring about 5 employees, and maybe 15 contract people. So my experience is .. limited

As for my personal experience being an employee .. I've looked around at other jobs ... even interviewed a few times. But every time I've evaluated the 'whole job' ... I've stayed where I am. Well, I did change jobs ONCE

kalabdel,
this is my opinion, so no offence meant to anyone.
it's hard to find good help, you hire people now days and they work for a few days / weeks and quit. the work is to hard.
we start people out here is basic jobs at 20/hr and they still leave.
my oldest just graduated and I have to admit it, but he's looking for his dream job and not wanting to start at the bottom of the pile like I did and work your way up.

james

I can't help with retaining... that's a whole different topic but.

For hiring, we adopted a group interview process. Get as many people in the same room as possible. Since a huge part of it is group dynamic in our situation. After the interview, we each fill out a score-matrix on our own then all sit down to discuss it.

This process has worked well for us. We also have a big customer relation component in our roles so interview is a must to gauge that aspect of it. YMMV.

Hi, this may not help you much, but I can give you a perspective from the employee side. I worked at a utility for 10 years, longest I ever stayed at a job. Left when they offered early outs because they were struggling (2010) and doubled my pension and gave me insurance for life. I learned PLC 5 (rs5) and contol logix. No training, all OJT. I still have a lot of gaps, but I do pretty well.
At this point in my career, I am more concerned with WHAT I am doing WHO I am working for and with (very important), work hours, travel, work environment, etc than salary. I usually agree on a number and don't expect or ask for increases. I only work salary not hourly. I don't need benefits. I used to live in Windsor, so I know about OHIP. I never worked in Canada, just commuted. Money isn't a prime motivator in my job hunting process. I worked at a cement plant, for an OEM that makes automotive framing machines, an integrator and finally now for a manufacturer in an assembly plant. I had to leave the integrator because of personal changes. I had to violate my "money isn't a prime motivator" policy. Divorces do that.
My suggestion is to find out in an interview what will motivate the person to do a good job and stay. I like sitting and programming, troubleshooting, commissioning. I like doing my own projects. I like teaching. My last job I was concerned at a possible lack of Rockwell jobs (Rockwell was their direct competitor) and there is NEVER enough training. Codesys and other platforms like Indraworks and Indralogic are difficult to pick up when there's no training and one is left to struggle and is set up to fail. At least I'm back in my comfort zone, however a Big 3 company is like a bureaucracy.
Find someone's motivation button. Many younger folks want more money. One may have to "invest" some money in a good employee even if they're not quite worth it at the time to keep them and get them to where one wants them to be. Hope I've helped.