Using PLC to control a shooting range

jozzi99

Member
Join Date
Oct 2015
Location
Komárno
Posts
6
Hi guys!
I am a newbie, so please excuse me if I ask dumb questions.
I am working on a project which as the title says involves a PLC controlling a whole shooting range by the help of sound sensors.
The principle is theoretically not so complicated. By the use of sound sensors I would like to control the clay pigeon throwing machines. If the shooter says "PULL" out loud, the sensor sends a signal to the PLC and the PLC then sends a signal to the machine which then throws the bird. Then I would need a second sound sensor with a much smaller sensitivity for when the gun pops. This second sensor then would send a signal to the PLC which then sets the program to another phase, where comes the second shooter or the next station. This is just in a nutshell, but I hope you guys understand it.
My main questions are:
- What kind of sound sensors do you recommend to use for this particular job?
- Is there a software, where I can test my ideas without having to buy a PLC? Is LabView a good choice?

Further tasks I will have to deal with are:
- connecting a tablet to the PLC via WiFi or Bluetooth for having able to choose game types (14 birds, 20 birds, 25 birds), ergo controlling the PLC programs by the tablet;
- monitoring the game stats on the tablet;

For that matter, what kind of PLC would you guys recommend? 8 stations, two towers (where the machines are located) and tablet connectivity. See attached pic.

If you can help with anything from above, I would appreciate it very much.

Thank you!

Best regards,
Joe.

skeet_layout.gif
 
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Yes, that occurred to me too. But the thing is this voice triggering method is the all time standard on shooting ranges. Normally the shotgun referee is pushing the trigger button, when the shooter shouts "pull", I would like to automate that. But sure, I will have to try that live... Maybe a sound sensor which picks up sounds only about 1-2 meters away? ...
 
I agree with amberman. The foot switch seems to me to be the best solution. If you like the "pull" sound, the PLC can send a signal to play the sound file with the pull word.:p
 
Sure guys, that would be the safest solution. But if you insist recommending me the foot switch I should let you know something. Before a shooter shoots he takes up a position in which he feels comfortable and stable. It is not possible to move your feet right before you shoot because that way you lose stability and fall out of concentration. Not to mention that every shooter has different stances and styles. The only thing you can make a signal with and is not causing interference in your concentration is your mouth therefore your voice.
So after clearing things up can any of you guys recommend me some sound sensors or help me with anything else? :)
Thanks!
 
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Sure guys, that would be the safest solution. But if you insist recommending me the foot switch I should let you know something. Before a shooter shoots he takes up a position in which he feels comfortable and stable. It is not possible to move your feet right before you shoot because that way you lose stability and fall out of concentration. Not to mention that every shooter has different stances and styles. The only thing you can make a signal and is not causing interference in your concentration is your mouth and your voice.
How long does a shooter need to get into position? Actuating the foot switch could start a time delay after which the machine throws the bird. That would give the shooter time to get into position. A second actuation of the foot switch could release the sequence to the next station. That eliminates the sound sensors completely. It would take a lot to convince me that the signal from a sound sensor could only be triggered by the desired sound and not a false trigger from something else.
Personally, I wouldn't touch a project like this. Too many ways that things could go wrong. I expect in your country the risk of litigation is somewhat less than in the United States, but still...
 
Thank you very much for the suggestion. I will contact them.
Thank you for your help!
Sorry for the bit harsher reply above :)
 
I don't see the safety risk of a false trigger. I assume the system would only be turned on when the range is active, and a false trigger just results in a clay frisbee flying down a firing range. Given its a firing range, anyone in the way is just as likely to get shot, so the frisbee is nothing.

Guard the thrower and have a key to make it live. Automatically shut off when the sequence is over and require the system to be positively made live for the next sequence. You shouldn't have anyone on the range when its active, and once people might go on the range, someone has to reactivate it.

Add a manual trigger mode for when the sound sensor cannot operate correctly, and some adjustable thresholds to alarm when the sensor is getting false positives. Maybe a referee controlled reset for false triggers and all issues are resolved.


That been said, I wouldn't use a PLC. They are not really suited to voice recognition, mostly due to the style of the programming languages. You would be looking at a complex algorithm which would normally be run by say a neural network, implemented in ladder. I don't know about you but I would shoot anyone who made me debug that. You might get away with it in some structured text languages, depending on the vendor of the PLC.

For sound controlled projects, you typically would go with an embedded solution (PIC, ATMEL, ARM...) running some form of voice recognition software. This is pretty reliable, and could use a communications protocol like RS232 to talk to the PLC. You would need to talk to a sound engineer about microphone choices, some sort of muffling of wind noise would be required and directional pick-ups would be very useful.
 
Hi Steve! Thank you for your suggestion.
I know it is a bit "vague" initiative, it is a new approach in collecting ideas and knowledge phase.
The thing is all throwing machines have a delay between pushing the button and throwing the bird. But that is random, between 0 and 3 sec. That means, that a timer is always counting 3 secs. If you ask for the bird when the timer is at 2 sec , you have 1 sec until the bird comes, if you ask for it at 1 sec then you have 2 sec, etc. So generally that is a rule that after saying pull you have somewhere between 0 and 3 sec until the bird comes. The foot switch suggestion you made would eliminate this, therefore breaking the rules.
Normally a shooting range here in my country would have only one field. That means that no other shooting sounds from the surrounding fields would interfere. By the way ideally there is not much noise on a shooting range it can be clearly heard when someone shouts pull... It would require a lot of tweaking, but I think it is achievable. Am I wrong? :/
The next station/next shooter thing with the foot switch would actually worth considering...
Thank you for your input, Steve! :)
 
Hi Chris!
Thank you this is very helpful!
So basically I would need let's say an Atmel microcontroller connected to a PLC via RS232 for the voice recognition? Do you have any suggestion what kind of microcontroller and PLC would be suitable for this project?
Oh, and btw you are right about the dangers of the false trigger. It would just throw a bird which can not hurt anyone, since it is not allowed to go inside the ring when the shooting range is active and the birds are thrown in a completely different direction (see pic).

Skeet-Field-Layout.jpg
 
I think Chris Hasler has the right idea with a separate processor with voice recognition. It will be much more reliable than a simple sound sensor since it needs to recognize a "word". I would use a simple digital signal from the voice recognition processor to the plc to trigger the release.

If you want to use a simple sound sensor, I would go with a hybrid solution. I can see where a footswitch to trigger the release would not be optimal. However, a footswitch "arm" followed by a sound based "release" may be the best of both worlds. Tap the footswith to arm and any sound within the following 5 seconds or so triggers a release. A highly directional microphone pointed at the shooter would take care of most of the false trigger issues.

Keith
 
Some thoughts

Fit each shooter with a personal microphone like those used when speaking to a group, the kind which transmit via RF to a sound system. Each shooter's mike is on a separate channel. With enough software each shooter's voicing of 'pull' could be taught to the system. Rangemaster disables houses and microphones 'til all shooters are in position and range is safe.
 

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