Women in Controls and Automation

Originally posted by Popo Karimu:

The problem on the field of Automation, PLC & Controls is that you're very limited to the brand you are using and the industry you've worked in.

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That hasn't been my experience in the US, at least at the engineering level. Many automation departments understand that actual coding is a very small part of what an automation and controls engineer does on a daily basis.

But that cuts both ways. An interest in software development will not necessarily translate to an interest in automation. Software development is only a part of what the career requires. An interest in Newtonian physics and calculus are probably better scholastic indicators of a good fit for automation engineering than an interest in software development. Then again, given what many of us do on a day to day basis, none of those are probably very good indicators.

If I had to pick one group of activities that would be a good indicator it would be solving puzzles. As Peter said, this is really all about solving problems. If you are the type that gets frustrated when the solution doesn't come quickly this may not be the career for you.

Specific to women in this industry, I've had mixed experiences with women just like I have with men. There is nothing about automation engineering that would indicate gender relates to capability other than the general cultural bias that "girls don't like that kind of thing". Also, I don't think the environment is any more or less "rough" than any other environment that women have been working in for the last 40 years. But be aware that you will be on the factory floor a certain amount of the time. If that environment doesn't suit you then you may want to skip this as a career.

Keith

I'll add my bit as I have had both my son and my daughter work for me in this field.

In short, my son hated it and had no interest - he had two goes, once at 18 and later in his mid 20's. He lasted only weeks both times. He now works in banking.

My daughter loved it. She helped me install and commission many a machine. She learned how to program HMI's and did a better job than me. She is a very attractive girl and the engineers and bosses were round her like fly's.
Honestly, it helped things flow lovely - people would do anything to help us out.
She couldn't close the grips on the lug crimping tool though, not even with both hands lol.
Sadly she got married and had children (if you know what I mean by sadly) and now she is a trained midwife but she still asks about machines she worked on - and the people still ask of her.

Over the years I have worked with female mechanical engineers. All were quite competent and some were outstanding.
What I did notice over the years was the lack of testosterone. They were all able to finesse their way around the petty power struggles and political BS that accompanies every project.
I am retired but if I were staffing again I would look for soccer mom skills.

Saturn_Europa1 said:

My daughter will be entering college soon. I had her talked into being a Civil Engineer. But she took a civie class in HS this year and hated it.

She's actually really good at coding with Java and Python and enjoys it. But I think the computer science and IT field is pretty crowded.

I personally would like to see her get into Automation and Controls. But I have never seen any women in this industry.

Is this a good industry for a woman to pursue? Would you recommend it to your daughter?

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Have her look at Inductive Automation's Ignition. Having Java and Python skills are a definite advantage to stand out as a 'New Scada' developer.

I work in the food industry designing/building/programming and installing controls . It is still a man's world in that industry, and she will need tough skin to survive if she will be involved with any field work.

Saturn_Europa1 said:

My daughter will be entering college soon. I had her talked into being a Civil Engineer. But she took a civie class in HS this year and hated it.

She's actually really good at coding with Java and Python and enjoys it. But I think the computer science and IT field is pretty crowded.

I personally would like to see her get into Automation and Controls. But I have never seen any women in this industry.

Is this a good industry for a woman to pursue? Would you recommend it to your daughter?

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A few things. Just my opinion of course, so please don't take offense.

1. You shouldn't talk your daughter into doing anything. She should choose what she wants. Now if you are recommending a certain field or showing them possibilities they might not have otherwise seen, then that is fine, and it sounds like this may be the case as she is already moving away from it. From my experience (I don't have kids yet, but I'm 4 years out of college) the majority of my friends who were pushed into a field by the parents ended up resenting it and have not been successful.

2. If she has a natural aptitude for coding/programming it would make sense for her to pursue it. If you major in computer science the job field and demand is high from what I've seen - I have a LOT of close friends with computer science degrees - and they've had no trouble finding jobs. In our company, the systems and software team is a higher rate than the controls engineering side as well. There will be no shortage or need for high skilled technical IT workers - especially with the next generation of millennials.

3. As far as "is it a good industry" - it absolutely is. I don't see any shortage of controls type work any time soon - and the skillset you develop is high in demand and I'm not worried about job security at all. In my experiences traveling and working across sites mostly all over the US, I have seen very very few female engineers in controls. When I graduated college with a mechanical engineering degree I would say our class was around 80% males 20% females. I think with STEM rising up more in elementary - high school that more women will continue to enter the field.

I can't say if I would recommend it to my daughter, because I don't have one but I will say that I think it is most important for her to pursue something she has a natural aptitude and interest for. If she really enjoys coding / programming, then I think pursing something in computer science make a lot of sense. And, that doesn't mean she can't work with controls as well. The demand for Industrial IT workers with IT/OT convergence is going to continue to grow.

Just my opinions of course, please feel free to disagree.

I' m attending a secondary school related to electromechanical maintenance and plc and there are 3 women in my class (10 students). I think it's ok, if your daughter likes Automation and Controls.

My opinion is that she should go into sales in male dominated field, like controls or automation. She'll have an incredible natural advantage over all her male competitors in the hardest thing in sales, just getting an appointment. Men will make an appointment for a woman sales person, where they wouldn't for a man. Fact of life.

My daughter worked for a electrical distributor as the marketing person. She went to a trade show and was one of about a dozen women amongst 30,000 men. She worked the booth and the attendees thought she was one of the hire-a-cuties and asked to have their picture taken with her. She'd have a crowd of attendees around her while she was doing her packaged spiel as the aisles and other booths were empty of attendees (you all know how trade shows are).

There's a couple of women in the mills who do controls, but why have a job that has all long hours and anxieties of turn-arounds when one can make sales calls on men in the office or conference room and take look-see or a plant tour when needed?

Lots of guys crank out code. Sure a woman can code, but why, when there's far more lucrative opportunities for the taking?

I think controls is probably the least diverse field I've been a part of. Doesn't matter whether we're talking race or gender diversty, it's just white guys everywhere.

mk42 said:

I think controls is probably the least diverse field I've been a part of. Doesn't matter whether we're talking race or gender diversty, it's just white guys everywhere.

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With a large infusion of Indians and middle-eastern here in SE-Michigan lately - to fill the shortage.

I agree wit xCOMMAND0x: Give her advice, but don't push her too hard in any one direction. If she has gumption it won't work, and if she doesn't it won't make her happy.

The undergraduate civil engineering classes I teach are maybe 1/3 female. Other disciplines have fewer females. The engineering field is still more men than women, despite decades of effort to change it. I fail to understand why.

The women engineers I work with have tended to be above average in competence - I suspect because they have to be more highly motivated to go into the field. That applies to the women controls engineers as well.

I think the opportunities for a woman in controls are excellent. The field is growing, it is under-served, and provides lots of challenging and worthwhile work. I think that Information Technology and the spin-offs are glamour fields and attracting a lot of entrants. I have to believe they will become crowded.

One downside is that a lot of travel is typically required in controls. Fair or not, this still tends to be tougher for women than men.

I coach a First Robotics team for high school kids. I think its at least a 50/50 split across all the teams. These kids will be the next engineers and many of them women. I think women have advantages as far as scholarships and schools recruiting them.

Bullzi said:

I actually worked with a few Woman Controls Engineers over the years. Most were just as competent as any one else. The Men on the job seemed to respect them for their knowledge.

My advice would be if your Daughter is the type of person that can think a process through from beginning to end. Has some mechanical skills. She isn't afraid to get dirty and doesn't give up eazy she could be a great Controls Engineer. If any of my Daughters possessed those skills I would push them in that direction.

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I agree and have worked with a few good female Engineers, however... Please never push your children in a direction they do not want to go, you will both regret it. :nodi:

YEA MY FIVE CENTS TOO

Here, we make custom automated equipment. whole plant full of welders, assemblers, every make of metal worker.

I custom design, build, program, install, all the electrical components. From the smallest flush tanks, up to the big oil pipe washers. Considering some of our engineers, some of the puzzles get quiet complicated. All on-offs. Three years have never built the same thing twice. Absolutely nother here a woman couldn't do.

Before,I was an industrial electrician/technician jack of all for 27 yrs. I have rebuilt several machines from relays and starters to PLC's and VFDs. My seventeen yr old daughter has helped me several times. She loves the trade. She's my little wire biter.

I have had her since she was 7. She been to work with me tons. On one particular day at the plant, we were heading back to the shop. I got stopped by the production manager wanting an update. I sent my daughter on ahead to the shop.

Well seems a couple of mechanics, who didn't know who she was, started talking smack at her. When I got to the shop, one of the other tech,s pointed out a bit of a scene at the other end of the tool room. It was my daughter. She had these two knuckle draggers pinned in the corner, shaking her finger at both of them, giving them the full on why nots of their behavior. Look on their faces was priceless. She was fifteen at the time. Its funny how proud daddy moments present themselves.

So she's had all this exposure and training in the trades and all my various industries, and do you know what she wanted to be,a veterinarian. (I'm going to be paying off that bill for decades). But she loved what I did and she love spending all that time with me. An aeries to my career would have been great. But she wants to learn how to stick her arm up a cows rectum. (can't believe I have to pay for that). And I will support her.

You do what you can, turn them loose, and let them be happy, and if your luck, they will share their joy with you.

At least my son builds racing cars. LMAO

just my five cents.

I am a women in automation and I love it. I went back to school in my 30's to earn an AAS in EET from the local community college. I mainly worked in biodiesel and petrochemical process plants after graduation. In truth it was pretty rough environment, some of the guys I worked with were not thrilled with women in very male workplace. I always felt like I was getting treated either better or worse, just because I was a women. Probably not really the case, but it did tend to feel that way. It was frustrating but I learned much better people skills, as a result.

As a couple of the responses pointed out women in tech are almost encouraged to end up in sales or documentation or lab or ehs, basically anywhere but getting our hands dirty. In that situation, it can be tough to get all the experience you need to advance. Plus young women are rightfully or wrongfully seen as a bigger risk to leave after kids are born than a young man with a new family.

However, I love my current role, which is senior lab technician at a fairly diversified manufacturing facility. No more 12 hour ***** and flopping from days to nights. Here I get to write my own the ladder logic, create LabView VIs, build all the test stations, and develop test plans. I don't get as dirty as I used to in process and I don't have to butt heads very often anymore, so I should love it.

I was wondering what the post count would be before a female in the industry would reply?

How many more will we see? (Unless there is something some of you already here are not declaring - weekend cross-dressers need not apply!)

It does tell us a lot, if our "little" pool of professionals is anything to go by?

From my experience, men tend to be intimidated by women in "their" workplace. Even more so when they are somewhat better at "it" than they are. On the flip side, when they are not so "hot" at "it", or they make "a" mistake, then the "she shouldn't really be here" brigade get their 15 minutes of fame.

I would agree that the "problem" lies more with the people who "think" they have the right to "discriminate" against women in predominantly male workplaces, even though they don't think they are being "discriminatory". The automatic "why is she here anyway?" types, without giving any real thought to the answer. You have to give females a fair crack of the whip, figuratively speaking!

I've worked with a couple of females over the years and their skill sets varied from mildly interested with potential to over-enthusiastic with none. However, what I have found to be a fairly constant trait is a certain level of determination. I think most of our working environments would not suit the more easily offended, timid types of the fairer s*x, and so tends to attract the more driven and self assured types that have a keen interest in the controls and automation field. I think for the most part, nothing is going to stop these individuals from succeeding. In fact, they tend to thrive on the fact that, despite the often present resistance they feel, they can potentially do it better.

The "what if they start a family?" question is a bit of a problem here these days. We are finding more and more that both parents want to work. So they end up with their children in pre-schools and after school facilities. My wife happens to run her own pre-school and Montessori. This means parents are spending less and less time with their children at key stages in their life. So the emphasis at present is on how we rectify that. One measure brought in here was to increase the amount of maternity leave newborn Mothers receive from their employers. They also want more time off for the Fathers to create a balance. This is all good for the children but now when a "fertile" women is applying for a position and has a "bump", or is "in the market" for one, the employer knows how long they are going to to be out compared to before. Young Fathers are facing the same hurdle, albeit a little bit lower. Career women know how much having children can impact or impede their progress in the workplace. So employers tend to look more for career driven people. That is somewhat discriminatory towards family oriented men and women who also want to play a role in the workplace, but you cannot really blame employers. They have to do what's best for the company, not other peoples' families. Some companies can be very supportive, but most are not.

Health and Safety in industrial environments can be of greater concern when a woman is pregnant. Exposure to noise, vibration, pressures and vacuums, dust, vapors, chemicals, electrical equipment, reaction times, ability to perform tasks safely, extra medical requirements, etc., all pose a headache that most employers would admit they'd prefer not to have.

There are some physical tasks that some women cannot perform. There are some physical tasks that some men cannot perform (keep your minds on the industry here folks!). But a women's inability to perform an industrial task is often frowned upon more so than any man's. Once they have good fault finding skills and can think on their feet, and bring fresh ideas to the table, and show a passion for what they do, then I would be more than happy to forego any physical shortcomings a women might have, or a man for that matter.

There are definite stumbling blocks in place for women in the industry, whether there by nature or intended, but if they are determined and passionate about succeeding, then they should. They will.

The Internet of Things has been mentioned and I do agree that there is huge potential for male or female graduates into this ever evolving market. It is here to stay and grow. We need to be better versed in IT/OT based skills going forward. Something I see somewhat lacking here on the Forum going on the amount of basic misconceptions I keep reading these days. Even if this employment sector does become crowded in time, then like any other, I believe if you are good, and I mean good, at what you do, then you will always find suitable work.

Yes, I would agree. Present them plenty of options. Promote, encourage and nurture what they are good at. What they are passionate about. Support them when they fail or change their minds (I know its hard when the college funds run dry!). But don't push. Certainly not towards your "field of dreams". Let them grow their own. If it closely resembles yours, in time, then maybe someday they'll come play with you. If not, you might not like it so much, but at least you'll know they are happy. That, after all, it what we all want for them, right?

Regards,
George