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Old October 8th, 2017, 02:50 PM   #16
sparkie
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Yes, maintenance is not considered value added to the process. We once almost lost an entire days production, worth around 3.5 million. We managed to save it with extra QA testing at a cost of 150K. When asked, I designed a system and installed (with help) the system for less than 2500 total. Tell me that isn't value -added.

It really isn't worth getting into these days.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 03:33 PM   #17
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It felt like the disinterest of training and mentoring new maintenance personal started with NAFTA (1989). Or at the very least reinforced it. Sadly, the guys with all of the experience are about gone and weren't able to pass on much of their knowledge.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #18
Rob S.
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It just seems like the "Baby Boomer" generation doesn't have a desire to mentor , coach , or challenge the younger generation. of course we are the parents of this younger generation. Here in the U.S. we have many that are out of the workforce , mainly by choice. I don't understand how NAFTA caused us not to mentor the neighbor kid , a single mother's son , a young machine operator , etc.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 05:44 PM   #19
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Laziness knows no age.

People have been complaining about young wippersnappers since probably the dawn of generations. I'm borderline with the younger generation, I see more know-it-alls than anything, I see a lot of "computer experts" that can fly through navigating and smoking the keys off the keyboard, but couldn't even tell you what a batch file is.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 07:24 PM   #20
diat150
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it seems to me that trade type educations are not pushed anymore. I know that the local trade school that I went to for industrial electronics used to have 4 professors and has now been cut back to 2. That school put alot of talent on the street. I am not sure if it was just a funding thing or the amount of students coming in has decreased. I also remember that there were programs to help pay for the school and supplies, which I took advantage of. Last I looked this type of assistance is no longer available outside of at the federal level.On the surface you would think that local companies would work alongside these schools to help shape the curriculum so that they have potential applicants down the road.

The sad thing is that trade type are usually well paying.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 07:42 PM   #21
Secpcb
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diat150,

That brings to mind the story of someone asking the boss "What if we spend all that money on training someone and then they leave?"

To which the owner replied "What if we don't?"
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Old October 8th, 2017, 08:17 PM   #22
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diat150,

That brings to mind the story of someone asking the boss "What if we spend all that money on training someone and then they leave?"

To which the owner replied "What if we don't?"
That is another issue that seems to be running rampant, the training excuse.

I can't do this or that because I was never trained... "I can't troubleshoot a simple failed IO card or bad relay because I was never sent to Rockwell training".
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Old October 8th, 2017, 08:20 PM   #23
sparkie
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diat150,

That brings to mind the story of someone asking the boss "What if we spend all that money on training someone and then they leave?"

To which the owner replied "What if we don't?"
After spending three years at a plant, teaching myself their systems (which were almost 100% undocumented, and most documentation that they DID have was at least 12 years old) I asked for training. I was given the same response. "I don't mind training upper management, but they aren't going to leave." I responded by stating, "Well, after three years, what else can I do? Besides, I've seen two of you come into that door, and go right back out."

Of course, by that time I had made up my mind I was leaving. We have companies that want to complain about this, but not truly invest in people, which is what it takes to keep yourself in techs. If the people are leading a better life by keeping your business running and profitable, you are going to get what you pay for.

Also as far as Academia and Trades, someone was deciding what coding language they wanted to use. I was promptly told that "C and PHP are on their way out the door, no reason to learn them." It is a terrible ideology. If you are going to do nothing but cutting-edge work, then fantastic. If you are going to do any kind of contract work, what do you tell the company? Sorry, but I can't help with your custom frontend for plant metrics. PHP is on the way out the door. Rewrite it in a language I know and then call me. But then again, very seldom does someone have the qualifications to teach at a certain level AND the real world experience to be able to present it in a way that is very practical and will be useful in the real world.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 09:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob S. View Post
It just seems like the "Baby Boomer" generation doesn't have a desire to mentor , coach , or challenge the younger generation. of course we are the parents of this younger generation. Here in the U.S. we have many that are out of the workforce , mainly by choice. I don't understand how NAFTA caused us not to mentor the neighbor kid , a single mother's son , a young machine operator , etc.
NAFTA provided an incentive for manufacturers to move facilities outside the USA to lower costs. No need to invest here because money can be saved by buying or making it else where.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 10:38 PM   #25
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The point most miss is that it is very different to SHOW a person how to do a task, than to TRAIN a person to do a task. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime sort of thing. Training involves teaching the man what the rod’s purpose and function is, how the reel works and why it is important, and how they work together. The man must then find for himself what bait the fish like and where they like to hang out.
Training is a two person job, both the trainer and the trainee must do their part. The only one that has anything to lose is the trainee.
I am guilty of not teaching and it is out of frustration most of the time or lack of time when people are fixing to get sent home.

*rod seal starts leaking on cylinder, dripping oil on to dies, quality shuts down the machine and it needs to be fixed tonow*
Me-“Hey new guy, you ever replaced packing in a cylinder?”
NewGuy-“nope”
Me-“Well, climb up here and let me show you how.”
Me-“First we need to remove the cap and slide it down out of the way. Then we can pull the chevron packing.”
NewGuy-“What’s a cap? Is that oil? Where does it come from? I thought this thing was the tank? What’s a chevron? I think you got the wrong ones, these new ones aren’t split like the old ones. ”
Me-“On second thought, how about you be a good chap and go get me some rags..”
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Old October 9th, 2017, 02:19 AM   #26
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I think the main issue is really money. Maintenance jobs are not really well paid for what they entail with long hours, call outs, weekends, dirty and so on and companies seem to be fine not putting in the money to start attracting more people in. Or better people in...

One other aspect in maintenance that I find puts people off is the lack of projects. Maintenance by itself is repetitive and kinda boring, but if companies put in the effort to have maintenance carry out projects, the staff would appreciate the break and opportunity to create something as well as getting something done with less hassle and headache that contracting out.
Although I do agree that companies sometimes don't put in the budget for projects, I find that it is more often than not a case of miscommunication than negligence or greed by the managers. Technical people, every now and then can't articulate exactly how much we will be saving in terms of money to the ones making the decisions. Likewise, the ones making the decisions often don't explain why they don't think the project is worth it to the ones proposing it.

One thing I noticed with a few electronic technicians is that they turn to this field because it can be less backbreaking work... and they imagine that all problems will be solved in front of a screen and not cleaning and replacing encoders. I think there are young ones with work ethic, they may just not be enticed to this particular area... and a good part of that could be money. Thus leaving only the ones that want an easy job only to realize that PLC's don't break down often and it can be a dirty job as much as any other at the end of the day.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 02:46 AM   #27
Ronnie Sullivan
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I have been doing jobs for a certain company for 20 years. (mainly PLC's or technical work)
In that time they have probably set on 10 - 12 technicians that were going to negate them having to use me again. (their words)

The funniest one was; they told me one Friday that this was probably the last time I would ever be there.
A new man was starting Monday and he was the best they had ever interviewed.

Monday lunchtime (12:00) they called with an urgent breakdown.
'where's the new man?'
'He's been trying to fix it this morning - but has now left the company'
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Old October 9th, 2017, 05:29 AM   #28
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Agree with all posts to me management are out of touch with maintenance/engineers and have no respect for us. IT person can earn good money but people like us not so much but at the same time we need to know Mechanical/hydraulics/Pneumatic/electric and soon.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 07:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardosocea View Post
I think the main issue is really money. Maintenance jobs are not really well paid for what they entail with long hours, call outs, weekends, dirty and so on and companies seem to be fine not putting in the money to start attracting more people in.
Here they are the highest paid people in the manufacturing plant, yes it's not the best job if you have a family but it pays good... most maintenance techs need to be able to run a mill, weld, run all the machines and troubleshoot them, modify PLC programs, etc and adding more everyday

One of the reason we support and advertise this website is to bring eduction back in the manufacturing world and start teaching kids young, better, and getting them more interested in manufacturing http://www.mfgday.com/
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Old October 9th, 2017, 09:01 AM   #30
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geniusintraining
Mfg day is a great service. Wherever I taught I tried to bring kids into the lab so they could see for themselves. I also had a night where adult students could bring their kids in and see what mom or dad do at work.
Keep up that good work.
I knew a high school science teacher that sent all her students to some kind of post secondary school. Many didn't do well. By happenstance she toured the Rouge Ford assembly plant. She now has become a proponent of skilled trades with religious zeal.
Too bad she is the only one I know.
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