193-E300 overload relay - experience?

rQx

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Hi,

I'm currently trying to understand this product. A customer has asked if we can incoorporate it in a system he will be offered. The system only consist of a soft start and a VFD. As I understand this is an electronic overload relay with inteligence. When I downloaded the neet little manual on 750 pages I found the following:

The E300 relay can be used with the following across the line starter applications:
• Non-reversing starter
• Reversing starter
• Wye (Star) / Delta starter
• Two-speed motors
• Low and medium voltage with two or three potential transformers
• With or without Phase current transformers
• With or without zero-sequence core balanced current transformer

First of all I don't think that neither a VFD or a Soft start is a "across the line" starter. So this product doesn't seem compatible with it. However I don't quite understand the three last sentences.

I guess that when I use a VFD maybe they don't need it since they can also communicate with it and get fault data.

On the lower series of this motor protection (193-EC1 to EC5 ) it says on Allen Bradley homepage that "Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) Compatible"

Since the pdoruct range of the E300 is up to 200A I would guess it would be quite common to use a VFD or soft start on these motors.

If anyone have had any experience with this series I would be glad to get some input.
 
We have some MCCs that use E300s, but only for FVNR starters. Depending on the IO offered or purchased, will determine the number of outputs/inputs. The same MCCs also house VFD and soft starts, but each of those is controlled via its own ethernet, and not from the E300s. That being said, in the end it really is just a remote IO unit with sensing capabilities, and the IO could be used to control most anything that you'd use IO for. However, there are built in functions of the E300 that must be configured for it to be used.
 
I'm using them, they are great. But in response to your questions;
Hi,

I'm currently trying to understand this product. A customer has asked if we can incoorporate it in a system he will be offered. The system only consist of a soft start and a VFD. As I understand this is an electronic overload relay with inteligence. When I downloaded the neet little manual on 750 pages I found the following:

The E300 relay can be used with the following across the line starter applications:
• Non-reversing starter
• Reversing starter
• Wye (Star) / Delta starter
• Two-speed motors
• Low and medium voltage with two or three potential transformers
• With or without Phase current transformers
• With or without zero-sequence core balanced current transformer

First of all I don't think that neither a VFD or a Soft start is a "across the line" starter. So this product doesn't seem compatible with it. However I don't quite understand the three last sentences.

I guess that when I use a VFD maybe they don't need it since they can also communicate with it and get fault data.
Correct, no need for it, unless as part of a bypass, or if you have multiple motors running from one VFD. The E300 can be used on the output of a VFD, but only within the rated frequency of the product, 45-65Hz. So if you want to run the VFD at less than 45Hz, the E300 will become inaccurate in terms of motor protection algorithms. It uses Rogowski Coils as the current sensors, which have a narrower operating frequency range. The E3+ and E1s use hall Effect transducers, so they are good from 20-250Hz.

There are no issues with regard to using an E300 on the load side of a Soft Starter. technically the way that comment was written, they were only addressing A-T-L applications, although Wye-Delta is not A-T-L either. Poor wording really.
On the lower series of this motor protection (193-EC1 to EC5 ) it says on Allen Bradley homepage that "Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) Compatible"
See above for limitations though.
Since the pdoruct range of the E300 is up to 200A I would guess it would be quite common to use a VFD or soft start on these motors.
Correct. Adding an OL relay of any sort to a VFD or SMC is generally unnecessary (as mentioned above), but I have run into one customer on Soft Starters that wanted the E300 added even though the OL protection was redundant, because they wanted the Dual Port Ethernet feature of the E300 for DLR, in addition to the expandable I/O and DeviceLogix programing capability. They could have achieved the DLR using an ETAP module, but not the expanded I/O and DeviceLogix programming.
If anyone have had any experience with this series I would be glad to get some input.
 
Thanks alot for good explination.

What are the I/Os for on these? My impression was that it was an ordinary OL relay but with more in depth diagnostics and fault?

We normally use:

OL protection - contactor ---- for DOL start
OL protection - contactor - softstart ---- for soft start
OL protection - VFD --- for VFDs

In this setups we control the contactor, soft start and VFD. Do I use the E300 serie to control anything? (other then getting faults from). In my mind I could just change our OL protection to the E300 series and be ready to go?

I think my customers main reason is to get diagnostic over ethernet.

Again thanks for good responses

/Tim
 
Soft starts and vfd's have their own protection built in so an E300 overload relay is redundant. I have put an E300 in medium voltage switchgear just to use the I/O that is built in to the E300 and did not use the overload portion of the relay (that was being done by a Multilin motor management relay)
 

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