OT: Switch Gear

The Plc Kid

Member
Join Date
Feb 2009
Location
Macon, Georgia
Posts
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I am about to start looking to buy a large amount of gear for a plant addition and I only have experience with siemens gear so I thought I would draw from the vast amount knowledge and experience from those here that have been at much longer than me so here goes.

I wanted to get some thoughts and opinions from others on brands the good bad and the ugly.

Siemens gear for the most part sux IMPO but I don't have a lot to compare to hands on but I like a lot of the features I see from AB,Cuttler Hammer and GE.

I will likely choose something to help mitigate arc flash issues also.

Cost not being a factor what are your thoughts and personal experiences please?
 
I have personally never been favorably impressed with either Siemens or GE quality. They both appear to sacrifice quality for lower price. I haven't been too thrilled with the level of service from either company.

AB and Cutler Hammer are better choices in my opinion. I think they are comparable on quality. AB is (sometimes) higher priced but generally has better service. An awful lot depends on the local distributor, and in choosing between these two brands I'd consider the local support very strongly. Of the four you mentioned I think these two are the better overall value.
 
Hi
I have used Ab and Abb a lot, take a look at Abb also but As Tom said local support makes a big difference

Donnchadh
 
This plant has some siemens, AB, and some Square D MCC.

I have not had much dealings with the Siemens switchboards, but have spent a lot of time working in the MCC. I definitely like the A/B Centerline MCC much much better than the Model 6 from Square D.
 
If you are talking Switch Gear not MCC. I would use Square D their I-Line distribution is very flexible and dependable. Have been a Licensed Electrician for more than 25 yrs. IMHO Square D is the best PERIOD.
 
i have personally had 2 different main breakers from 2 brand new Eaton (cutlerhammer) mccs. one was a 400A and another was a 1200A. both times i had to wait a week for a new one. and since that wouldnt work with the project time line, i had to temp install a fused disconnect. i havent dealt with siemens MCCs much. just was not impressed with Eaton after that happened twice to me on brand new equipment.

that being said. if your whole plant is siemens, and you have a ready supply of parts for their stuff, there is something to be said for sticking with the same brand... less parts to carry in the maintenance shop lol
 
Run as fast as you can from the Siemens stuff. Stick with AB. You and anyone else in the plant will be very thankful.

/rant on

We are now a half Siemens, half AB plant after a recent plant expansion. Siemens was chosen because the cost was so much lower than AB. But after the training, startup problems, and now hardware problems causing lost production; the cost savings is gone. And even though we have a distributor across the street, getting answers is horrible.

They do make some really cool stuff, but as far as MCC's go... Run away.

/rant off

Sportster
 
AB has networking on a lot of there gear I did a DeviceNet MCC a couple of years ago and it was great. It was great except for the DNet part. I think they have Ethernet versions now.
 
We have a mix here (which is a pain), of CH, some AB, and Square D. Hands down, the Square D has been the most trouble-free from the substations on down to the local load centers. Availability of parts is also excellent.
 
Hello everyone! I am a first time poster who has been following your threads for some time now. I am a 25yr electrician who plays in many aspects of our industry. In my experience, local support capability is everything. All of the big manufacturers have gone to some form of lean manufacturing, which means the parts are not manufactured until they are ordered. No more inventory, hense long lead times. in my experience, Square D has provided the best support and will work with you to build the gear to fit your needs. I personally love the I- line system above all others!Good luck!
 
IMO Square D has the best switch gear (its also priced accordingly). Cutler Hammer also has good gear.

That said...

What is your current switch gear? How much of it is there? This should be a huge factor in your decision. If you already have a large installation of Siemens switch gear then stick with it. Spare breakers are very expensive and you don't want to have to stock double inventory just because you have different brands of switch gear.

Here I have Square D - and even though we've had architects, bean counters, and electrical contractors try to talk us into something else as we've expanded we have always told them that it will be Square D because of the amount of already installed Square D gear and that there would be no discussion about it.

When you order new switch gear it is typically a lot cheaper to order it with the breakers - so plan as much of that as you can. I don't mean its a little bit cheaper either, it is a lot cheaper, as much as 30%-50%. The manufacturers price a panel with breakers as a competitive product, while individual breakers are for an existing panel and they have you over a barrel. Its just the way it is. So plan ahead.

I've managed several plant expansions, if you want to talk send me a PM and I'll send you my phone number.
 
I only have experience with Siemens gear so I thought I would draw from the vast amount knowledge and experience from those here that have been at much longer than me so here goes.
If your plant has only Siemens switchgear, that is a clue to the thinking at that site and for that company. I have found that Siemens and GE compete on price and will generally have the best up-front prices, but maybe not all the bells and whistles. Much contractor-selected electrical equipment winds up being GE or Siemens due to the pricing. That doesn't mean it is better quality, just that these companies offer products for the type of "bare-bones-do-the-job-and-no-more" that contractors have to use to get a shot at the bid.

Allen Bradley probably has the most deluxe version for Motor Control Centers. One great asset from Allen Bradley is the CenterONE MCC software program (that you can get from your local AB distributor) that allows you, the planner, to lay out a complete MCC, producing layout sketches, AutoCAD one-line diagrams, parts list, specifications, and the whole package. The CenterONE program will check your layout for any overloads on each MCC vertical section, check your bus bar sizes, and coordinate your breakers and fuses with the main breaker or main incoming bus, make sure you have enough width, depth, and height in your MCC for all equipment, recommend top pullboxes if needed, and when finished, you can Email the package, or print and mail it to your local AB dealer for a very fast quote. The AB MCC can include a lot of equipment that might have to be auxiliary equipment for other brands, such as MCC-mounted AB VFDS, PLCs, Ethernet network in the MCC, built-in power-factor correction capacitors, arc-flash breakers, and so on.

In past projects, the limit for AB is that they do not provide much if any higher-voltage switchgear or transformers above 480 volts, so if you want to get it all in one brand, you would have to go with Siemens or GE. Square D is sort of in-between, having MCCs and also some higher voltage transformers and switchgear. Square D provides more local hand-holding for the engineer or project manager in selecting equipment, than does GE or Siemens. With GE or Siemens, you mostly have to already know what you need.

As Tim said, plan to have generous spares for everything, at least 30% spare breakers and motor starters of different sizes, with the spare motor starters proportional to the ones used in your plant now. In other words, if 80% of the motors in your plant use NEMA size 1 starters, then make 80% of your MCC spare starters also Size 1, and so on for all sizes up to Size 5. Yes you can add them later, but for such a high price that it could be a problem for new projects or for modifying old ones. The manufacturer's have to compete with each other for initial orders, but NOT for follow-up orders: you are their captive customer and then they have a monopoly condition for your follow-up business. Other brands will not work or fit. I know from past experience that they all take prime advantage of that situation.
 
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