CSA Information

bill4807

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Join Date
Mar 2013
Location
michigan
Posts
314
Hi Everybody,

I am looking for some advise or comments on what I know about CSA components and protection methods. Without having the CSA documents or access to an inspector in Canada, pretty much until they make the trip to come in and do the assessment.
(This is not including the PSR evaluation) I am sure I will have to make it control reliable for that, I think?)

I know I do most of these items already but the Fuses VS other choices(ie.Circuit breakers, MMP) is my main concern.

What I think I know about CSA (is this a correct assumption?)

1. All 3 phase motors should have overload and fused short circuit protection. (Does this mean I cannot use supplemental circuit breaker protection before the contactors?)

2. Transformers/Power supplies: Both primary leads must be Fused .The hot line of the secondary must be Fused

3. Ground the 0V of a control transformer.

4. Label all fuses with the replacement size and type

5. Any primary/Branch Circuit protection must be fuses instead of Circuit breakers.

I know I may be missing items in this but I am trying to avoid having to replace all my breakers and wiring after the assessment.

Thanks for viewing.
 
I can tell you that for item 1, any 3 phase manually operated disconnect switch for the main power feed into the unit which is mounted on the unit have to be rated "suitable as a motor disconnect" if you have a motor in the machine. You will need to prove this rating to the inspector.

For #2, yes, primary leads have to have a fuse, not a circuit breaker and both the hot and the neutral require a fuse. The fuseholder must be the dead-opening type which is type CC. If the secondary carries 110V or more, I believe that neutral also needs a fuse. Can't comment on the other stuff.
 
I always ground the x2 (0volt) terminal of the transformer to prevent a floating neutral.

I did a job in West Tn in which one of the transformer windings was not grounded correctly. We had 75 volts neutral to ground on the 120 side.
it was the shutdown period in July at this plant and we were all soaking wet.
we had to lay in our backs on this machine and when we energized the drill and touched the bit to the frame, we got lit up.
we were lucky.

When we grounded the x2 terminal to ground, the issue went away.
that's been my standard ever since.

james
 
For control panels:
2-neutral over a 120v single phase or 240v (L1-L2+N) is never fused never and it is grounded. This is needed to avoid floating voltage explained above.
2-There is some case where you can just fuse the primary with lower fuse rating but to avoid false blown fuses, you better fuse both side.
4 labeling fuse holder and connection terminal with wire gage and temperature (New)

Breaker can be used as long as you respect kA rating available at connection point and branch vs supplementary...

If you already follow carefully UL508a you have a good base but you will need parts that bare cUL or CSA approvals and use TEW or CSA approved wires inside control panels...
There are likely more picky about details and subtil things than UL

If you build any specific panel, that is out of the general approval program and you will need to subscribe to a special file at some extra $$$
 
Thanks for the replies.

Ski dood,
I will look into item #1 per your reply.
I was planning on using class CC for the fuses if I were to have to use them rather than branch breakers before the motor circuits.

James,
That's a scary example.
I'm with you though I do always ground the X2, and also the 0v on power supplies.

Jeff23spl,
I do normally have a short circuit protection on the primary and secondary side of PS's and transformers but not fuses. It seems like if I follow my standard practices and exchange fuses for breakers I will like you said have a good base. I think I will use all fuses even though I do respect the KA and branch vs supplementary regularly. But would rather not risk the inspector to recommend me to change out over 1K in breakers.
 
My CSA inspector loves us using 105 degree Celsius, Machine Tool Wire. It helps with current rating and duct fill and helps you to meet temperature requirements.

I use it for everything within the control panel. Motor wiring, control wiring and power wiring.


They will also want to see that you have a file containing the checklist, BOM, mechanical drawings, electrical drawings and pictures if you have them of the final result.
 
Pie Guy, can you please share the manufacturer and Cat# for that wire?

Also, I will need some 3 conductor unshielded cable, CSA, 300V rating, for energizing 110 V 10 Watt solenoid valve coils. 20-22 AWG should be OK. Maybe 60 feet. I am in the Toronto area so lots of suppliers here but I don't want to buy a whole roll of it. Any chance you would you have any suggestions as to a suitable cable and where I can by it?
 
I get it through my local wholesaler.

Its from a company called D.C. Cables LTD. in Quebec.
www.dccables.com


They have all colors and sizes.

As for you 3 Cond, if its leaving the cabinet I usually grab a piece of grey PVC OLFLEX machine cable. Its water/oil resistant, 600 Volt rated and is available as a shielded build. I buy it from the same folks as the MTW wire. My CSA guys likes it as well.

Your not allowed to use it as an extension cord though. Apparently its not rated to be used as a "Flexible Cord" according to the NEC. I haven't looked it up, just what the CSA inspector tells me.

As for part numbers. Its simply the name of the cable.
 
Your not allowed to use it as an extension cord though. Apparently its not rated to be used as a "Flexible Cord" according to the NEC. I haven't looked it up, just what the CSA inspector tells me.
Plcpie guy,
What do you mean by extension cord usage? For the oflex
 
I mean making an extension cord or replacing the cord on a tool such as an electric drill. This cable commonly gets used for that purpose, and rightfully so as its really great stuff. However, its not approved for that type of use, by MY local standards anyway.
 
Great, thanks so much!

I get it through my local wholesaler.

Its from a company called D.C. Cables LTD. in Quebec.
www.dccables.com


They have all colors and sizes.

As for you 3 Cond, if its leaving the cabinet I usually grab a piece of grey PVC OLFLEX machine cable. Its water/oil resistant, 600 Volt rated and is available as a shielded build. I buy it from the same folks as the MTW wire. My CSA guys likes it as well.

Your not allowed to use it as an extension cord though. Apparently its not rated to be used as a "Flexible Cord" according to the NEC. I haven't looked it up, just what the CSA inspector tells me.

As for part numbers. Its simply the name of the cable.
 
i bet the wire you talk about is TEW105 ? There is some that is already double rated TEW and MTW so you may use it both side of the border for csa and ul
 
Indeed it does say TEW on it.
Good info with the ability to use the wire in both countries. I'm in the beginning phases of building a large cabinet to send to the US now, first time. This one I will be certifying with the CSA/UL mark. There is a few extra requirements, but my panel design had already met the criteria for the UL stamp anyway so its minimal changes. I hadn't thought about components that may be usable here but not in the US like wire.
 

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