SLC 5/05 to Field Server PCCC? Explicit?

Hi I am working with a SLC 5/05 connected to an Ethernet switch that is connected to a Fieldserver (From LonWorks). (All CAT 5 connections)

The LonWorks network gathers the generator and transfer switch alarms and sends them to the field server.

The field server converts the data to various flavors of Ethernet IP.

I cant get a straight answer as to which flavor my PLC uses.
I have been reading the SLC 5/05 can only use PCCC. Is this correct?

Technical support for the field server device says they configured it for some other flavor and do not want to change the config file until they can confirm if the SLC 5/05 can in fact only use PCCC.

Can anyone direct me to where in which manual this information would be stated? Trying to get a hold of PLC support is really very difficult and depending who answers the phone can be very expensive.

Basically I have all my alarms in the field server device and I do not know how to read the data in RSLogix 500/SLC 5/05.

First off if I need to use PCCC I need to prove it to tech support so they can make the changes to the field server config file.

Also am I correct in thinking that the SLC 5/05 can only communicate with a field server like this using explicit messaging?

Lastly if both of the above are true and they get setup as such, can someone give me an example of how to setup one such explicit message?

I know I am asking a lot and I really appreciate any light for my darkness.

You guys seem to know more then most people I talk to in real life, experience trumps any call center training it seems, maybe someone has worked with a LonWorks Field Server and/or a SLC 5/05 explicit messaging?

Here is a link for the Driver manual for the field server for Ethernet IP in case anyone wanted to know what I am talking about. (Too big too attach)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B29XspKH1VMpNzRBV01PTU1ob3M/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I really love this forum, I do not post often but I read it a lot and really have found it an invaluable resource.

Hello,

>I have been reading the SLC 5/05 can only use PCCC. Is this correct?

As far as I know that is correct. PCCC is the only Ethernet flavor we support for the SLC 5/05.

I'll try to be both concise and detailed.

PCCC is "Programmable Controllers Communications Command". It's the command set for A-B controllers going back to the Seventies.

A typical PCCC command is a data table read from a SLC-5/05 controller. A command you might express in English as "Tell me the value of data table N7:0, length 10" would be encoded in PCCC protocol bytes and sent to the PLC.

PCCC commands can be transported by two different Ethernet protocols: CSPv4 and CIP.

CSPv4 is the "Client Server Protocol v4". That is the Ethernet protocol used by the original PLC-5E and older SLC-5/05 controllers. It uses TCP Port 2222, and is proprietary to Allen-Bradley, though many competitors have . CSPv4 can only transport PCCC type messages. ControlLogix controllers do not support CSPv4.

CIP, the "Common Industrial Protocol" over Ethernet is also called EtherNet/IP. It has more functions than CSPv4 does; it can send data table reads and writes as well as cyclic services for I/O connections and time sync, motion control, and safety functions. CIP is the native protocol of ControlLogix and CompactLogix controllers and uses TCP Port number 44818.

An SLC-5/05 controller built within the last 10 years or so (or flash upgraded) can support PCCC commands over both CSPv4 and CIP.

SLC-5/05 controllers built in about the last 5 years support both PCCC messaging over CSPv4 and CIP and also another function called an Ethernet Explicit Message (EEM).

The EEM instruction allows you to do some messaging using the CIP native object model.

So an EEM would be expressed in English as "Tell me the value of CIP Class 15, Instance 4, Attribute 1".

If you can figure out the Operating System, OS Series Letter, and Firmware Revison of the controller we can tell what sort of messages it supports.

All SLC-5/05 controllers can be firmware upgraded. It's a chargeable item from Rockwell.

I'll take a peek at the Fieldserver document next.

Right away: the FieldServer definitely doesn't appear to support the old CSPv4 protocol. So a 10+ year old, non-upgraded SLC-5/05 won't communicate with it.

But the FieldServer sounds like it can use CIP to do either PCCC messaging or ControlLogix style Data Table Read/Write over CIP EtherNet/IP.

The one that matches the capabilities of the SLC-5/05 is PCCC. The SLC-5/05 cannot send a ControlLogix style Data Table Read/Write.

Page 15 of the FieldServer User Manual seems to show the PCCC data table emulation you need to configure in order to allow the SLC-5/05 to send a message to the FieldServer.

My SLC 500 is:

CAT 1747-L551

MAT NO 1747-L551 C

SER C

OS# SER FW
1747-OS 501 C 11

Here is a picture of the side of the processor card

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B29XspKH1VMpRDdBdlFubHFwV0E/edit?usp=sharing

Your SLC-5/05 was recently manufactured and has the most up-to-date firmware in it. So that's great !

The only protocol that the SLC-5/05 and the Fieldserver have in common is PCCC, encapsulated in CIP (EtherNet/IP(TM)).

The SLC-5/05 will not send a CIP Data Table Read to read and write ControlLogix-style tags.

The EEM generic CIP Object communication command also doesn't seem like it would be appropriate for use with the Fieldserver.

So whomever is responsible for configuring the Fieldserver needs to set it up to use PCCC protocol.

Thanks a bunch.

I will be back next week likely to pick some more brains after my field techs and myself take another stab Tuesday.

Just to confirm though, this Exec_PCCC (Encapsulation using Allen Bradley PCCC)

This is Explicit Messaging, Correct?
The field server manual page 10 & 15 talks about the type of data transfer required being "explicit".

Is this different then the "Ethernet Explicit Messaging" you stated
"The EEM generic CIP Object communication command also doesn't seem like it would be appropriate for use with the Fieldserver."????

Sorry that part just confused me.

Also my PLC is the one receiving the data, (Alarms from a genset and transfer switch)not sending it, does this change anything?


Just wondering about the logic in the PLC I will setup to read the data from the field server, it looks like the data on the field server will already be mapped to certain Allen Bradley File type/file number/bit length/and some type of address. (This must be what the new config file in the field server will do for me)

If that is the case this should be easier then I thought it was going to be.
Do you think this is the case?

Happy long weekend everyone, speak with you soon.

No Heritage Day for us here south of the border !

The terminology can get a little confusing.

"Explicit" messaging is most of what you think of as PLC messaging; one controller or software packages sends a message that explicitly describes the address or data object it wants to read or write, and gets a reply from the target device.

"Implicit" messaging is how cyclic data like I/O gets moved around. The controller broadcasts or transmits this data as just a block of data with a connection identifier and transaction number attached. The receiving controllers know what to do with the data because they've negotiated its purpose when the connection was opened. The data is "implicit" because every packet doesn't contain addressing or function information.

The SLC-5/05 will execute a MSG instruction that will send an Explicit Message to the FieldServer.

The message will specify the SLC-500 style data tables that the FieldServer is emulating. In English, it will be like "FieldServer, tell me the data values of Data File F8, elements 0-19, please".

Even though the SLC-5/05 is the one "receiving" the data, it has to initiate the transaction. MSG instructions are generally either a "Read" or a "Write" function.

Alright soI have the new config file installed in the field server for PCCC.

An example of one alarm I need to get to the PLC is Generator running.

I have been given an "Ethernet IP Points Map - Corresponding to the new config file"

Items in this map are setup as follows:
1. Point Description
2. Internal Store Fieldserver Dev
3. File_Type
4. File_Number
5. Address

Note: Items 3, 4, 5 being listed as "Ethernet /IP Points Map"

For "Gen Running" the map shows
1. nf02genRunning
2. DA_server_pb
3. B (Binary)
4. 1
5. 21


So I am trying to setup my first MSG instruction in my SLC5/05 to request this data.

For SLC 5/05 MSG instruction I need to fill in the following data:
1. Type (Cant change and is set as "Peer to Peer")
2. Read/Write (I have set this to "Read" as I want this data in my PLC)
3. Target Device (Can choose 500CPU, 485CIF, or PLC5, I believe PLC5 or CPU Read is correct? Currently set to 500CPU Read)
4. Local/Remote (Currently set to Local)
5. Control Block (Only seems to allow N Integer, so have set to N10:44)
6. Control Block Length (Defaults to 51, can not change)


Some questions here:

1. How do I know which to choose for the target device?
500CPU, 485CIF, or PLC5?
I have a SLC5/05, is that PLC5? I would use this option if the target device was a SLC5/05?
Someone here said they think I need to use 500CPU so that is what I have currently set it for.

2. Is the control block the location I will store the field server data in my PLC?

3. Is Ethernet considered "Local"?


With all the initial values set as above I can enter the MSG block and need to fill in the following for

This Controller:
1.Communication Command (Set at 500CPU Read currently)
2.Data Table Address (set at N10:44 currently)
3.Size in Elements (Currently 1)
4.Channel (Currently 1)

Target Device:
1.Message Timeout (Currently set to 5)
2.Data Table Address (Currently set to B1:21)
3.Ethernet(IP) Address (Currently set to 192.168.1.84, this is the IP address of the field server)
4.Local/Remote (Currently set to local)


Now I do not know if the target device data table address should be B1:21?

When I downloaded the program to my PLC a few values changed by themselves within the MSG setup screen:
Under this controller:
Size in Elements changed to -17200
Under Target Device:
Message timeout changed to 1
Data Table Address changed to 345


I have not used MSG blocks in awhile and the techs here are not faring much better, is anything obviously wrong with the way I have this setup?

If this is setup correctly, which bit of my PLC now represents the Gen running state? The generator is currently running and the only bit I see turned on is N10:44/15, I was expecting it to be the 22nd bit of the control block register as I believed this was the register the data should store in.

I have attached the Ethernet IP Points Map if anyone is interested or I am unclear.

Thank you for any insight you may be able to provide.

Whoops attachment here

attachments not working?