Small SCADA Systems / HMI's

For big systemes we will deploy Siemens S7-1500 PLC's and WINCC Scada on 19"Rack Mounted server.....

For smaller systems we will base this round a Simens PLC but what is the best way to do the following


Give 1 or 2 Screens with HMI (touch) in different locations
Data logging say 30-50 Analogs with about 50% at 2Hz and 50% at 1/2Hz frequency retained for 30 days with


I like the idea of using an EXOR Ex715 but the logging capablities are limited
the other engineer keeps wanting to use Microboxs with small Win CC or using a Simens Touch Panels. Im' of the opinion Siemens touch panels and WINCC would need a historian..... !Costly!

My problem is i'm not a Siemens man, I use them and there OK but there is better kit out there and I want to get best abiity out of machine rather than be tied to a single supplier.

WinCC and WinCC and WinCC are three different things.

The Microbox solution your colleague suggest would be a WinCC Advanced Runtime with an archives license. That is quite inexpensive. The fastest logging rate is 1 sec (1 Hz). So if you need 500 ms (2 Hz) logging rate, then yes it cannot be done with that solution.

For that amount of storage, I think you're in the realm of a PC-based HMI. You could use WinCC Advanced + Runtime, which does not cost near as much as WinCC Professional. WinCC Advanced has datalogging capabilities with an additional license (not additional software).

Basically there are 3 items to order

WinCC Advanced Engineering
WinCC Advanced Runtime
WinCC Advanced Logging

Edit: I just saw the max logging rate provided by Jesper.

Could live with a 1hz Logging rate if that was a limiting factor. Bigger factor is the storage and retention.

would this be as cost effective the Exor Ex715 is approx £2000


I guess I need this software and a panel PC to run it on

1 sec rate and 30 days retention equates to 2592000 log records.
In WinCC Advanced, the maximum is 500000 log records ("entries" in WinCC lingo). Even if you split up into segmented logs, the limitation is still 500000 log records.
So I think that WinCC Advanced is not enough for your requirements.

May I suggest that you try out Deltalogic Easylog:
https://www.deltalogic.de/products/software/accon-easylog
You can download a free demo.
It is inexpensive, and easy to use.
I dont know if it is performant enough, but I suspect it is because the same company makes a good driver for Siemens S7.

JesperMP said:

1 sec rate and 30 days retention equates to 2592000 log records.
In WinCC Advanced, the maximum is 500000 log records ("entries" in WinCC lingo). Even if you split up into segmented logs, the limitation is still 500000 log records.
So I think that WinCC Advanced is not enough for your requirements.

Click to expand...

Jesper,
If the limitation is 500000 is that per signal?
Also WinCC Advanced can it store this into CSV (or other export format) to maintain a rolling buffer. so that the 30days logs could be down loaded but the last ~5 days are active as historic trend?

The 500000 is log entries per log.
You can have several logs.
And per log you can have many variables.
You can have a single logfile, or multiple sequental logfiles that rolls over ("segmented" in WinCC lingo).
Unfortunately, as far as I understand it from the system description, the 500000 entry limit is for all entries summed together, no matter if it is for a single logfile or a segmented logfile.

The data is stored either as CSV or as RDB. RDB is a proprietary (probably faster) format.

You could try this...

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/109477071/long-term-data-archiving-with-wincc-runtime-advanced-and-simatic-hmi-operating-devices-with-wincc-(tia-portal)-?dti=0&lc=en-WW

That is a good find sigmadelta !


edit: It says that the method is good for comfort panels as well as PCs.
I would go for a PC solution anyway.