Older Injection Molding Machine conversion to a PLC?

I currently program Allen Bradley PLC's with rs500 and rs5000 software along with panelview and factorytalk view ME touchscreen developement within the food industry.
My question is this.
I am currently looking at a german made ARBURG Allrounder 170 CMD injection molding machine with Dialogica controls from the mid to late 80's for a friend of mine and I am fully capable of controlling the movements of any machine with I/O in ladder logic along with HMI's and networking.
But I am under the impression that I must have some sort of clamping and injection controls seperate from the plc platform in order to achieve good control of the shot portion.
The person interested in having it competely gone through and programmed with a PLC and Touchscreen said they have a Micrologix 1500. That was my first concern.
I am under the impression they do not want to spend too much in an upgrade.
I would be charging for my time, wiring and startup.
What kind of time and effort could I expect in the complete devoplement of controls, schematics and touchscreens. I am not familiar with the technical inner workings of this machine.
I have a basic understanding of how an plastic injection machine works. It is the proportion valves and closed loop feedback controls I am concerned with.
How much time and effort would I be looking at.
I am thinking at least a Compaclogix with a panelview.
They want me to make this machine much simpler. Is that even possible. It seems to have a massive amount of screens on this old controller now.
How many screens would I be looking at for controls.
Looks like a massive amount of HMI developement to me.
Thanks,

I think a injection molding machine program is a bit beyond the capabilities of a Micrologix 1500. There is usually a lot of analog I/O and Pid loops involved. Your thinking of a CompactLogix PAC is more inline with what you will need to control a IMM. Last year I wrote a program for a similar machine using a L32E and a PVPlus 1000. That worked out fine, but there was no proportional valves for any of the hydraulic functions. It was a very simple injection/blow machine. Screw control and clamping for a IMM can be very complex, but can be done in the Compactlogix platform.

I was wondering if you were to use temp. Controllers with comms back to the plc. The ML1500 might handle that

The proportional valving is not that hard to control. Provided you only need an analogue signal


Just a thought

Injection molding machines have a variety of newer safety requirements. If you update it, you need to add the safeties.

paulcs said:

Injection molding machines have a variety of newer safety requirements. If you update it, you need to add the safeties.

Click to expand...

spot on

but this is also the case with any Hydraulic control system.
And or Pneumatics

One of the safety element is,if you put 1 or 2 sheet paper A4 size and stick front of the mould and the system can detect during clamp, the clamping will pull back and give alarm.

this is first thing u need think and design.

few type of mould are expensive then injection moulding machine.

refROSET700

osmanmomin said:

One of the safety element is,if you put 1 or 2 sheet paper A4 size and stick front of the mould and the system can detect during clamp, the clamping will pull back and give alarm.

this is first thing u need think and design.

few type of mould are expensive then injection moulding machine.

Click to expand...

Do I understand this comment?
As a safety device the machine moves ????

That can never be a safety function -
It can be done provided all guards are in place but never for person protection.

Safety is the state of being "safe" (from French sauf), the condition of being protected against physical, social, spiritual, financial, political, emotional, occupational, psychological, educational or other types or consequences of failure, damage, error, accidents, harm or any other event which could be considered non-desirable.

Safety can also be defined to be the control of recognized hazards to achieve an acceptable level of risk.

This can take the form of being protected from the event or from exposure to something that causes health or economical losses.

It can include protection of people or of possessions.

instead of posting a smart A response - read what is being said.

find out the facts and legal machine safety requirements.

When you have, you are free to criticize me, with the true facts.


the old "economical loss" bean counter attitude does not work.

At the end of the day a safety control circuit has to stop all motive sources - NO MOVEMENT ALLOWED
This means that the Die Platten can not open if a safety is triggered. However, if it not a safety device and only functions with the guards fully in place - then and only Then it is OK.




WIKI is not a machine safety site

Ok I have checked your country of Origin.

Please note:- USE/EU/BS and AUS. safety standards are clearly stated in print.
Risk analysis is a crucial part of machinery building.

I am not sure what your machine safety standards actually are

Apologize from me is my comment/action hurt you feeling.

Safety is applied to very thing. Human, animal and property.
Before and after nothing changed.

On safety implement all human are same, whatever standard are apply they still human being.

Improvement is better by knowledge, experience and enforcement.
Very country has their safety implementation –OSHA.

On our discussion here that one of member forum take task to design and built alternation/modification on injection molding.
He need take care during this task.
Who will make the confirmation on safety on using this machine?
Safety aspect – human and property.

Injection moulding machine has safety feature.
a.) Safety door guard.
b.) Barrel guard.
c.) And A Dozen of interlock is installed.

One example was given by me on mould clamping force level setting.
This testing sometimes using a paper A4 size or kit to detect on forgein material or unnecessary object
On mould surface moveable and stationary.

If the sensor detector the moveable mould will pull back and stop machine.
This testing can proceed only safety interlock is satisfied by system.

He need lot of knowledge on injection moulding machine to take this task.
Apologize again from me.

I think osmanmomin is really talking about machine safe gaurding itself not machine gaurding from an operator view.

Ihave worked with several engineers that only look at people safety and not machine protection.

osmanmomin said:

This testing sometimes using a paper A4 size or kit to detect on forgein material or unnecessary object
On mould surface moveable and stationary.

Click to expand...

How do you do that? By the time a foreign object is detected it is too late to stop before the mold closes.

We could do this on presses but by the time we detected the foreign material the press is closed and the press doesn't stop instantly.