Crimson 3.1 on W11 virtualbox

dwoodlock · Jan 27, 2023

Just curious if anyone uses this combination, or has discovered any issues with it.

I am attempting to load my runtime via usb connection. When I click send from the Link menu the screen changes to the "Graphite Series" display and just sits there, and my computer prompt says "Checking device hardware version".

Just seems to be stuck at this step, not sure why. First time Crimson user.

Thanks

OkiePC · Jan 27, 2023

Can you try it from a Windows 10 machine (real or virtual)?

You symptoms makes me suspicious that Win11 has broken the USB driver.

dwoodlock · Jan 28, 2023

I had considered this as well, but I can say for sure on a windows11 machine not running in a VM it works just fine.

Might be a virtualbox issue.

Background:

Crimson runtime was created on one computer, m340 program on another (running in VM). Was a divide and conquer project bc of time crunch. Later on I installed both softwares in the VM as two computers became a hassle.

BryanG · Jan 28, 2023

I have a Graphite HMI on the test bench and a Windows 10 VM running on Virtualbox that I can add Crimson to, so I can give it a try, though it will be Monday.

To be honest I don't use the USB link very often, if at all, the first load of a Crimson database I do with an SD card or USB stick, then I use the Ethernet port for updates as I work out the kinks and debug.

joseph_e2 · Jan 28, 2023

I generally have all of my software that IT doesn't manage installed on VMs. Except I also kept a copy of Crimson on the host. One time, I was transferring a program to a G3 via USB that needed a firmware update. When the HMI rebooted, the USB drivers had enough of a conniption that it didn't reconnect to the VM in time and ended up bricked. That was Windows 7 VM on a Windows 7 host. I contacted Red Lion and they provided a utility that recovered it, but since then I've only used USB to the host, not a VM. After that, we made sure to have CF cards in all of the G3s so they could be firmware flashed via Ethernet.

dwoodlock · Jan 28, 2023

Considering I may install crimson in my personal laptop and bring it to work to try out Monday.

Hopefully it's not bricked or anything. I also may try to install from a USB stick.

Is it possible to use Ethernet out of the box instead of USB? My initial plan was to try this, but didn't find any references to a factory IP address. At that point I used USB on the original computer which worked fine on the first panel.

I'm a new virtualbox user, and it's definitely possible with what I've read since it's a w11 issue and I guess the 7 series of virtualbox is also known to have some bugs.

OkiePC · Jan 28, 2023

Nah, it's not bricked.

There is a hidden menu that you can get to that allows you to turn on IP downloads and set a static IP address, but the easiest way is to just use a USB cable.

The 2nd easiest way is to put an image on an SD card and boot it with the card inserted.

To do that, on the Crimson file menu, choose Save Image, and name it "image.ci3"

When the unit boots up, if it finds a file on the root of the SD card with that exact name and with a newer date than the one it already has in memory, it will load it.

Note that in many cases, the first time you boot with an image file, it will include firmware that is newer and it takes a minute or two to complete. During this process you might see a screen complaining about "VERSION MISMATCH" That happens when the unit already has an image file and you are updating firmware but haven't yet updated the image. Just wait and let it finish and it should load with new firmware (to match your Crimson 3.1 build) and the application will come up and run.

Subsequent power cycles will skip all this (unless you update the image on the SD card) and boot up and run in about 10 seconds.

I always try to leave an image.ci3 file on a memory card installed even on units that aren't doing any logging. It makes replacing it as simple as popping that card into the new hardware and powering it up. If you are logging data, that data will also be present on that memory card and available to trends soon after you power up even if you have to replace the hardware.

There are some cases where the SD card won't be properly recognized by the HMI. Older version required FAT16 format and 2GB max disk size, but it's been my experience that newer versions ... at least the CR series ... will work with larger disk sizes formatted FAT32.

For that reason, I also include in the application a screen that shows the status of the SD card, free percent and a button (with confirmation) to format it. Note that formatting the card from the application will erase any image file that is present on it as well as all the log files so you only want to do that if the disk is corrupted or not recognized due to format.

OkiePC · Jan 28, 2023

joseph_e2 said:
I generally have all of my software that IT doesn't manage installed on VMs. Except I also kept a copy of Crimson on the host. One time, I was transferring a program to a G3 via USB that needed a firmware update. When the HMI rebooted, the USB drivers had enough of a conniption that it didn't reconnect to the VM in time and ended up bricked. That was Windows 7 VM on a Windows 7 host. I contacted Red Lion and they provided a utility that recovered it, but since then I've only used USB to the host, not a VM. After that, we made sure to have CF cards in all of the G3s so they could be firmware flashed via Ethernet.

The two times I thought I bricked one, I was able to get it updated by having the USB cable ready to go and hit update just as soon as I saw the boot version in the lower right corner after power up per advice from RL tech support.

One time when 3.1 was young, I had one run for a few months then after a power cycle get stuck on the "CR1000" logo (7"). it took a couple of tries to time it right but I was able to revive it with a newer build that appears to have addressed that problem based on the extremely brief release notes and the fact that it hasn't happened to me in a couple of years.

dwoodlock · Jan 29, 2023

Thanks for the tips

OkiePC said:
Nah, it's not bricked.

There is a hidden menu that you can get to that allows you to turn on IP downloads and set a static IP address, but the easiest way is to just use a USB cable.

The 2nd easiest way is to put an image on an SD card and boot it with the card inserted.

To do that, on the Crimson file menu, choose Save Image, and name it "image.ci3"

When the unit boots up, if it finds a file on the root of the SD card with that exact name and with a newer date than the one it already has in memory, it will load it.

Note that in many cases, the first time you boot with an image file, it will include firmware that is newer and it takes a minute or two to complete. During this process you might see a screen complaining about "VERSION MISMATCH" That happens when the unit already has an image file and you are updating firmware but haven't yet updated the image. Just wait and let it finish and it should load with new firmware (to match your Crimson 3.1 build) and the application will come up and run.

Subsequent power cycles will skip all this (unless you update the image on the SD card) and boot up and run in about 10 seconds.

I always try to leave an image.ci3 file on a memory card installed even on units that aren't doing any logging. It makes replacing it as simple as popping that card into the new hardware and powering it up. If you are logging data, that data will also be present on that memory card and available to trends soon after you power up even if you have to replace the hardware.

There are some cases where the SD card won't be properly recognized by the HMI. Older version required FAT16 format and 2GB max disk size, but it's been my experience that newer versions ... at least the CR series ... will work with larger disk sizes formatted FAT32.

For that reason, I also include in the application a screen that shows the status of the SD card, free percent and a button (with confirmation) to format it. Note that formatting the card from the application will erase any image file that is present on it as well as all the log files so you only want to do that if the disk is corrupted or not recognized due to format.

dwoodlock · Jan 31, 2023

Ended up just using my personal computer to handle the initial HMI configuration.

I think the issue is related to the HMI rebooting after you connect and the driver not reconnecting quick enough.

Other than that, I will say this red lion panel has been great to work with. Never worked with Modbus before and the prospect of connecting between a schneider PLC (which I had also never worked with before) and a red lion panel had me a little nervous, but when all was said and done it was pretty seamless.

Crimson 3.1 on W11 virtualbox

dwoodlock

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