OT - Remote support via CCTV

I've had an enquiry concerning remote support of a machine via CCTV.
Does anybody have experience in this area?

Rough technical specifcation:
Connection to machine via hardware based VPN, Tosibox, Stridelinx or similar.
Minimal requirement: Live feed from 1-4 cameras into network switch.
Nice to have feature 1: NVR mounted in electrical cabinet, ideally din-rail mounted.
Nice to have feature 2: 2 way audio between machine operator and technical support. Given it's a noisy factory environment, bluetooth headset would be ideal.
Nice to have feature 3: Pixel based area detection, with i/o based alarming to machine control. Not a safety feature, more like a "we know you've been in this section of the machine, and a few hours later you've rung us with a problem".
Nice to have feature 4: Higher frame rate cameras, not talking 1000 fps, but more than the standard 30fps.

Are there companies specialising in this area, or is it a case of looking at what the major CCTV providers are offering and finding a suitable solution?

You should also check into the isp provider for that location to make sure they will be able to provide the "Bandwidth" and what the cost would be.

example: 4 camera's at let's say 60fps would probably use upward to a Terabyte/Month if using 24/7.

I'm defintiely bandwidth conscious. I've already told the customer that livefeeds of multiple cameras may not be realistic.
The remote connection will only be sporadic, but needs to be reliable.

The NVR should be onsite.

If you need to remote in, remote into one of their local PC's that can access the NVR stream.

If you MUST have a stream going to your office constantly, install a Davantis box between the (still onsite) NVR and you.

I don't know the AUS law systems but in the EU there would be a lengthy contract regarding having live feeds to someone else's CCTV system.

Following. All the NVR and IP Cameras I've look at on the market are basic and don't support any interfacing or communications.

Jeev, you can use RTSP on NVRs', or if you use Ignition SCADA, you don't need RTSP

This is more for remote troubleshooting of individual mahcines, as much as it would be nice to have tight integration with the machine control, it's not required.
Something like a Hikvision 4 port NVR DS-7604NI-K1/4P goes close, but the 19inch form factor uses up a lot of cabinet space.
RCA ports for audio in/out is a positive, but it looks like most of the newer NVRs are dropping hardware based alarm i/o from their base lineup.

There's also a few models which support a Point of Sale serial stream for data overlay, would be a nice feature to overlay machine status/alarms onto the video stream, but not a priority for this instance.

I'm following this thread for recommendations because I have a similar project but with less necessary bandwidth (and in the USA). I have not gotten into sophisticated stuff that requires its own building security integrator, but have been reviewing ordinary commercial security cameras and NVRs.

I found a commercial NVR (set-top form factor, Lorex N861) with a handful of discrete I/O for alarm inputs and outputs.

I hadn't thought about a serial stream for data overlay, assuming that I would correlate time/date metadata or video overlay with the MRP system to know what sort of machine/system/product was running at the time.

I'm not sure I would even try to build a fixed endpoint audio link into something like this. Mobile phones are ubiquitous and multiparty IP conferencing via Zoom or Google or MS Teams will only become more common.

But one related thing: My biggest client forbids earbuds or headsets anywhere on the production floor, with an exception for bone conduction headsets because you can wear foam earplugs with them in noisy environments, and hear the ambient sounds in quiet ones. You can even buy the brand I got (Trekz Air Aftershokz) at the Company store.

I'm a novice with this sort of thing and have been reading a little about the ONVIF standard, and just found a bit of a rabbit hole to go down about automating an NVR with Node-Red. I'm going to have to start hiding my Raspberry Pi's from the boss.

ggc; why does the NVR have to be rack mounted? And why must it be in the PLC control panel? I wouldn't want the NVR IP stream on the automation network. Install the NVR in a server room (now you can rack mount it) where it belongs, and CAT 6 from the IP camera(s) direct to the NVR, with PoE of course. Traditional HDDs' do not like being close to e.g. Servo hardware; I have seen standard PC hardware placed too near EMI emitting devices and every few days the HDD would wipe itself.

The HIK vision mentioned; the NVR has AI within it. However, the AI algorithms within the Davantis box are much superior. A Davantis box is an industrial PC, running Linux, that takes a sub-stream feed from the NVR and then compresses, and steams to e.g. a 24/7 CCTV security monitoring facility. They get the AI reports (alarms) on motion, and can then alert the on-site staff.

With Ignition SCADA you can directly access an IP stream, you could do the overlays but you would have to write this yourself, and also the AI. HIK NVRs' are cheap. Don't reinvent the wheel. And of course, there are some people that can't install Ignition for clients, due to its dependency on Jython as opposed to (C)Python.

Have you looked at the Surveillance Station units from Synology ? They made their name in storage arrays, so networked video storage is natural for them.

I just found out that they support Advantech ADAM series Ethernet I/O modules and now I wonder if they use Modbus/TCP or a different protocol.

They have IP security speaker support, too.

Ken, my only experience with Synology is the Synology rack NAS and IoSafe I use in my office.

I have a HIK NVR, and it has digital alarm outputs. RS-485 too.

ggc, can you define what these machines/production lines are doing?

I have experienced factories that install IP cameras' on e.g. a robotic pick and place station. If the part didn't go in, the axis would fault on overcurrent and alarm. Then the recorded footage would be viewed based on the time of the fault. Is your application similar?

Machine is stand alone production unit, steel fabrication industry, approx 10 servo axis & plenty of pneuamtics, but operated by miniumum wage operator who can heavily influence production efficency.
Assume there is minimal to zero technical help at the production site.
Physically, machine is approx 24 meters long by 10 meters wide. Main electrical cabinet approx 2200mm* 1200mm, and an operator console with a Beckhoff panel PC.

While a 19in rack mounted unit might physically fit in the main cabinet, a small form factor NVR with din rail mounting would be preferable. Cameras would ideally be POE directly into NVR, with a single ethernet connection into a Tosibox/Stridelinx/hardware based VPN. WIFI/Lan connection may not be available inside factory, thus 4G connection and bandwidth constraints are likely.
A seperate ethernet connection between the Beckhoff PC and the Tosibox would also be required.
While zoom/skype/whatsapp are technically possible, many factories ban mobile phones on the production floor. A bluetooth headset might create more problems than it solves, but some sort of 2 way audio between help desk and production floor would be an asset.
If an IP connection to an overseas technical support desk was in place, would be quite useful to be able to talk an operator through an issue, while watching the cameras and monitoring the machine control.
This all just at the preliminary stage to find out what is out there outside of the traditional CCTV world. It's a fairly niche market, but I was hopeful there might be something a little bit more "industrial" already on the market.

There is a data (ergo, bandwidth) calculator available from HIK. It's on their website as a free download.

Quantity 4 of 4K cameras' at 30FPS is close to 1TB per day required in the internal HDDs' on the NVR.

Synology unit looks interesting, might have to dive a bit deeper into that tomorrow.

the_msp said:

There is a data (ergo, bandwidth) calculator available from HIK. It's on their website as a free download.

Quantity 4 of 4K cameras' at 30FPS is close to 1TB per day required in the internal HDDs' on the NVR.

Click to expand...

4k will likely be overkill, 1080 resolution should be adequate.
Haven't used the Hikvision software in awhile, is it possible to record at a high resolution, but remotely view at a lower resolution to conserve bandwidth? But if the high resolution is required, download the footage to a remote PC for off-line viewing.