Help a RSLogix 5 guy learn to search RSLogix 5000

wildswing

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Join Date
May 2005
Location
Sault Ste Marie, Ontario
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Hey fellas,

Our facility is still mainly PLC 5 and SLC, but we do have one, recently updated system with a ControlLogix processor. The tech guys are familiar with and able to use the various search functions in the older software, 5 and 500, but when it comes to 5000 they get frustrated, so I've been asked to give them a little demo/lesson. Problem is that it's been a long time since I went to the training and the system this processor runs is very reliable so even I'm rusty.

Our WW Intouch HMIs are set up so that alarm tagnames are identical to symbol names in the PLC5s and tags in the CLX, so the first thing they look for in the logic is that alarm tag. Any hints, tips or tricks to finding things quickly in RSLogix 5000? Do you know of any good online references?

One specific Q. I remember using this before but have forgotten. What's the quick key to flip back and forth between ladder listing and cross reference windows in RSL5000?
 
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first rule: ALWAYS search using the >Search >Find sequence from the MAIN MENU (at the top) ... specifically do NOT (I repeat do NOT) use the handy little “Find All” window at the top of the screen ... this always reverts to a “local” search only – which is NOT good for technicians trying to solve a problem ...

next rule: be careful to notice which search feature opens up ... one is for searching in “routines” – the other is for searching in “tags” ...

once the search window is opened, click the “Find within” button and turn all the check boxes on ... recheck these settings before each search ... the software has a nasty habit of turning off the checkboxes from time to time ...

once you’ve done a “Find All” search, don’t even look at the “results” in the popup window ... quite often those results are wrong ... instead close both the search window – and the results window – and then press the F4 key ... keep pressing it to cycle through all of the “found” items ... the system will pause when you get to the end (note the message in the lower left corner of your screen) ... pressing F4 again will cycle back through the list ...

I don’t recommend the old “right-click-find-all” technique ... often it reverts to partial searches (local routines only) ...

most important ... do not use the Cross Reference to search until you have nailed down EXACTLY what you’re looking for ... by that I mean that the Cross Reference makes a LOUSY “first cut” search – mainly because it doesn’t support wildcards – or “imbedded” text strings ... specifically, searching for “PUMP” MIGHT (or might NOT) find PUMP_LOW_PRESSURE for you - but LOW_PRESSURE_PUMP will NOT be found if you do an open-ended search for “PUMP” ...

finally ... the Cross Reference is absolutely essential in nailing down how things are “tied together” in the ladder logic ... one specific example: with various aliases possible for the same “base bit” it’s entirely possible to miss a “double-coil” problem unless you use the Cross Reference feature ... more specifically, a “Search” won’t identify the interrelationships between the tagnames ...

you’ve hit on a sore subject with “searching in RSLogix5000” ... naturally “searches” are a BIG TICKET item in my troubleshooting classes ... in RSLogix5 or RSLogix500 I can have most students extremely competent after about 15 minutes of exercises ... with RSLogix5000 it generally takes at least three hours ... much of that extra time is spent convincing the students that they can no longer count on the same old “tried and true” methods that they’ve always relied on in the older software ...

hope this helps ... out of typing time for now ...
 
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Thanks fellas! Ron...WOW...that's more than I could have hoped for. I do have one request though...

most important ... do not use the Cross Reference to search until you have nailed down EXACTLY what you’re looking for ... by that I mean that the Cross Reference makes a LOUSY “first cut” search – mainly because it doesn’t support wildcards – or “imbedded” text strings ... specifically, searching for “PUMP” MIGHT (or might NOT) find PUMP_LOW_PRESSURE for you - but LOW_PRESSURE_PUMP will NOT be found if you do an open-ended search for “PUMP” ...
Excellent info. Luckily the German OEM that did the PLC 5 > CLX conversion (and developed the original HMI) made absolutely sure that PLC5 Symbols (later CLX tagnames) were identical to Intouch tagnames, so 99% of the time we won't run into that issue. However, we do add to the HMI and logic, so we'll have to be extra careful to do the same.


finally ... the Cross Reference is absolutely essential in nailing down how things are “tied together” in the ladder logic ... one specific example: with various aliases possible for the same “base bit” it’s entirely possible to miss a “double-coil” problem unless you use the Cross Reference feature ... more specifically, a “Search” won’t identify the interrelationships between the tagnames ...
I'm still too much of a CLX newbie to understand that well enough to convey to others. Can you provide an example please?

you’ve hit on a sore subject with “searching in RSLogix5000” ... they can no longer count on the same old “tried and true” methods that they’ve always relied on in the older software ...
You sure got that right! It's as if RSLogix 5000 was written with oem design engineers in mind rather than end users that have to troubleshoot at 3 am. Am I wrong here, or is it just the ravings of a newbie struggling to learn something new?

<RANT MODE ON - with touch of self admiration> Whenever I develop something new, be it hardware or software, for our facility, one of my design thoughts is "How easy is this gonna be to figure out, for someone who's never seen it before, when the mill's down at 3 am?" <RANT MODE OFF - maintaining self admiration for a while ;) >
 
I'm still too much of a CLX newbie to understand that well enough to convey to others. Can you provide an example please?

sure ... here’s an example straight from the Boot Camp ... you can do this offline for an exercise ...

suppose that we have a “base” output tag Local:2:O.Data.12 ... naturally that’s scoped at the “controller” level ...

make an alias and scope it at some other level ... for example: LO_PRESSURE_PUMP scoped at the MainProgram level ... put a simple rung to control that alias tag – somewhere in a “MainProgram” routine ...

make another alias and scope it at yet another level ... for example: ALARM_LAMP_RED scoped at the AlarmProgram level ... put a simple rung to control that alias tag – somewhere in an “AlarmProgram” routine ...

so ... just to state the point – some knucklehead is trying to control the same physical output device (wired to ONE terminal screw) TWICE (in other words, a classic double-coil problem) ... just clicking on the wrong bit when setting up a new tag can EASILY cause this problem ...

and here’s where it gets tricky ... since we’re using aliases to do the control, a simple “Find All” search for the “PUMP” tag will NOT identify the problem ... on the other hand, a properly implemented Cross Reference of any of the tagnames listed above should lead to the proper analysis ...

basic idea: the Cross Reference (bless its little heart) DOES show how the control of the tags are interrelated ... a “Search” won’t do that ...

one more since I’ve got a few extra minutes ...

It's as if RSLogix 5000 was written with oem design engineers in mind rather than end users that have to troubleshoot at 3 am.

you have hit the proverbial nail squarely on its proverbial head ... “engineer/programmer” people truly love this stuff – but then they generally “LIVE” with it on a day-to-day basis ... on the other hand, the “technician” type people who usually come to my classes only deal with the software when it’s absolutely necessary ... in most cases the machinery is down and “time” represents money being wasted ... for those types of guys, the flexibility in the software isn’t an “advantage” – instead it just introduces another layer of “complexity” that makes it harder to troubleshoot a problem ...

Am I wrong here, or is it just the ravings of a newbie struggling to learn something new?

no, it’s not just you ... here’s one specific quote from a former student (actually one of the plant’s engineers) ... it’s an extremely common sentiment ...


but here’s an RSLogix5000 feature that maintenance technicians (and I with my kindred spirit) actually DO like ...

check out the little-known >Search >Browse Logic feature ... this was obviously put there by “one-of-US” ... basically it just looks for “OUTPUTS” ... but that’s cool - because that’s the only part of the system that makes the boss go ballistic ... (“inputs” don’t make money) ...

anyway ... type in something like “pump” and keep hitting the “Find Next” button ... I think you (and the people you’re trying to train) will find this VERY interesting ... I know my students love it ...
 
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Do you have an online or DVD version?

yes, but there's nothing in there that would help with your ControlLogix "searches" issues ...

I wish I could send people to your course

well, as they say, "if wishes were Porches, then beggars would drive" ... (adjusted for inflation - your wishes may vary) ...

glad I was able to help ...
 

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