Fanuc 90/30 HMI programming

CalG

Member
Join Date
Feb 2013
Location
VT
Posts
197
First post, Search engine found this forum, Nice to see it!.

It would be nice to contribute, rather than start with a question, but the real world is what brought me here.

let me impose on any who may offer advice or wisdom;-)

I have a vacuum process machine that was in storage for some time. Now I work to recommission the tool.

Fitted with a Fanuc 90/30 311 PLC and a KEP MMI200 key panel to control the pumping sequence and the process parameters, "something" dropped out during storage. That is, the control functions worked fine when put away, but now? NO!. Some strange magnetic anomalies must have jiggled a few electrons loose.

I have the correct software for both devices, and successfully communicate with both as well. I have pulled the logic from the 90/30 and print it to file, but the MMI program is a blank. (Strange for an EPROM)

I am at some disadvantage in that there is no mention of the MMI 200 program in the tool documentation, and the documented ladder logic is not quite a match to the data contained in the PLC . (Well, quite a bit different really ;-) Similar enough to extract most references and apply nicknames and descriptions. Only About 165 references divided between %I, %M, and %R

My trouble is innocence ;-) I just don't seem to grok the HMI programming that would include key functions, whether set or toggle, nor the use of reference bits to control the LED annunciators.

The KEP "manual" speaks of "register +1, register+2 and register+3" as the locations for the LED functions, but that is just going over my head. From the ladder listing, LEDs are referenced between %M0505 and %M0528.
I don't see a way to assign references to only the LEDs in the KEP software.

Can anyone offer guidance on programming the MMI based on back engineering the ladder logic?

All comments appreciated

Cal
 
Can anyone offer guidance on programming the MMI based on back engineering the ladder logic?
For someone not very familar with the MMI, that should be the last resort. The first things to try include finding an old CD disk copy or floppy-disk copy of the MMI program, finding a print-out so that you can renter the program into the MMI software, contacting the original programmer to ask for a copy, contacting the vacuum process machine manufacturer to ask for or buy a copy of the MMI program.
 
Thanks for the comments

But of course, those paths have been trodden.

Why else throw ones self to the populous ;-)

Cal
 
If you have tried all else, reverse-enginnering the MMI program is for when you have a lot of free time, and are ready for severe headaches, hair pulling, poking around in the PLC cables, and trying to find out when things go on and off.

The first reverse-design step should be to learn all about the KEP MMI 200 panel, how it is programmed, what functions it has, the addresses, and how the tags are read from and written to the PLC.
 
Its hard to believe that someone in possession of the software for both the PLC and HMI would not make a backup copy of the files for both at the time of putting the machine into storage.

Is there an operator's manual with pictures of the HMI screens? If you you can make good guess as to what values the operator could set and what functions could be started or stopped from the HMI. Failing that, does the person who operated the machine before it was taken out of service still work for the company? If so, pick his brain to find out as much as you can about how he ran the machine.

As a start in restoring the HMI functionality, make a list of all %M addresses in the ladder logic that don't have any logic turning them on or off. Those have to come from the HMI. The address names and reference descriptions can help figure out how the points fit into the overall operation. You can generally figure out from the usage in the ladder logic whether touching an object on the HMI was a momentary or toggle action.

Unfortunately it can be a time-consuming process.
 
Steve

Your comments are well appreciated!
When the machine was put in storage, it was taken out of service. SURPLUS to requirements. Fully depreciated and written off. There was a PC located with the tool at that time, but was separated in the shuffle. I am sure all the programming documentation would be found in that hard drive, Along with data logging, and applications for process monitor functions. But have you ever tried to locate "that computer" in a progressive company that considered the tool surplus at that time? That was over 6 years ago! Trying to reclaim lost references would be much like pushing a chain uphill. In fact, the contact at that time is no longer with the company. Such is life!

I have some reference literature for the panel configuration. For your advice, the MMI-200 is no more than a key pad serving as 24 toggle switches. That is, NO GRAPHICS!. so I'm not talking rocket surgery here.

I have been paging through the ladder logic listing, extracting all references. Your suggestion to concentrate on the M references not covered by the logic has lit a bulb in my process. Thank you for that!

With the key label assignments as originally allocated and the programming software. I have even made some first approximations at reprogramming the MMI from the ladder logic information. (with no break through however) I believe I am close however.

Can you shed any light on the "register +1" terms that are indicated in the KEP literature as key to LED annunciation function.

Comments are well appreciated

Regards

Cal
 
The KEP "manual" speaks of "register +1, register+2 and register+3" as the locations for the LED functions, but that is just going over my head.


I'm not familiar with this KEP operator interface, but it sounds as though the switches and/or indicator LEDs might simply be assigned to a register array and all that you need to do is to specify the starting register address. Discrete bits (such as %I and %M elements) in the Series 90 PLCs can also be referenced as registers, by referring to the first bit on a byte boundary.

For instance, %M1 - %M16 make up the first 16 bit register in the %M data table. Register 2 would be referenced by the starting address %M17.
 
Steve, Boondocks of W.Mass?
I'm about an hour away. North Adams area.
I'm just outside of Brattleboro!
Bridgeport Metal Goods in Hinsdale?

I don't think I've ever used that particular KEP unit, although I did work a "Zoid" model many years ago. As Bit Bucket 07 suggests, the "register + 1" etc probably refers to a starting address assigned to the LEDs and other HMI functionality. %M00505 is on a byte boundary so register + 0 could be %M00505 - %M00520, register + 1 could be %M00521 - %M00536 etc. When I see "register" I think of a group of 16 bits, but it's possible that KEP defines "register" as a single address regardless of whether its Boolean or Integer.
 
I'm trying to get this bit, byte and register relationship, but it's a stretch....

With a rung of logic that includes M0167 (nc)- I00007 (no)- and then coil M0527 which is an LED How is the MMI associated with the M0527. This taken from a print out of the PLC ladder logic. Perhaps this too specific based on hardware/ application.

Again, reference M0505 through M0528 are all LEDs. 24 LEDs, and 24 key pad annunciators.

I'm sure I'll have a eureka moment soon enough, It just has not hit me yet ;-)

Perhaps there are some obscure screens in the KEP programming software that will reveal the clue, but I have not found it yet.

And no, noting to do with BMG. The tool was originally made for MPB in Keene. I'm independent.

Thanks

Cal
 
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Remember the KEP is capable of communicating with many different brands and models of PLC all of which use different naming conventions for their addressing. Somewhere in the KEP sofware there must be a place where you define the PLC address that the HMI looks at to determine when to turn an LED on or off. It will be a number of consecutive memory locations. On the KEP side, it seems that the addresses are called register + 1, register + 2, etc. Without seeing the KEP manual I can't tell you whether register + 1 refers to a single boolean bit or whether bit zero of register +1 refers to a single boolean bit. Generally I would expect register + 1 to be 16 cosecutive boolean bits, but the people at KEP may have had a different opinion.
 
Based on THIS MANUAL I found, my guess would be the following:

%M505-%M528 = LEDs 1-24
%M529-%M532 = Beeper and Output Control (if used)
%M537-%M560 = Keys 1-24

You probably just need to choose the starting address (%M505) in the MMI

🍻

-Eric
 
From the KEP literature

Bit Map for MMI LED, Beeper and
Open Collector Output Control
LED Register
LED Register+1
Bit 1 - LED 1
Bit 1 - LED 17
Bit 2 - LED 2
Bit 2 - LED 18
Bit 3 - LED 3
Bit 3 - LED 19
Bit 4 - LED 4
Bit 4 - LED 20
Bit 5 - LED 5
Bit 5 - LED 21
Bit 6 - LED 6
Bit 6 - LED 22 MMI-200
Bit 7 - LED 7
Bit 7 - LED 23
only
Bit 8 - LED 8
Bit 8 - LED 24
Bit 9 - LED 9
Bit 9 - Beeper Enable
Bit 10 - LED 10 Bit 10 - Beeper Activate
Bit 11 - LED 11 Bit 11 - O.C. Enable
Bit 12 - LED 12 Bit 12 - O.C. Activate
Bit 13 - LED 13 Bit 13 - Not used
Bit 14 - LED 14 Bit 14 - Not used
Bit 15 - LED 15 Bit 15 - Not used
Bit 16 - LED 16 Bit 16 - Not used
Bit Map for MMI
Keypad Download
LED Register+2 LED Register+3
Bit 1 - Key 1
Bit 1 - Key 17
Bit 2 - Key 2
Bit 2 - Key 18
Bit 3 - Key 3
Bit 3 - Key 19
Bit 4 - Key 4
Bit 4 - Key 20
Bit 5 - Key 5
Bit 5 - Key 21
Bit 6 - Key 6
Bit 6 - Key 22 MMI-200
Bit 7 - Key 7
Bit 7 - Key 23 only
Bit 8 - Key 8
Bit 8 - Key 24
Bit 9 - Key 9
Bit 9 - Not used
Bit 10 - Key 10
Bit 10 - Not used
Bit 11 - Key 11
Bit 11 - Not used
Bit 12 - Key 12
Bit 12 - Not used
Bit 13 - Key 13
Bit 13 - Not used
Bit 14 - Key 14
Bit 14 - Not used
Bit 15 - Key 15
Bit 15 - Not used
Bit 16 - Key 16
Bit 16 - Not used
Function Key and LED Assignments
**
LED 1 LED 5 LED 9 LED 13 LED 17 LED 21
Key F1 Key F5

This cut and paste does not come out well. But shows what I am working with.

There was additional repetition of the remaining Keys 1-24, but I truncated the copy and paste.

A better view is on page 27 of the document in this link
www.[B]kep[/B].com/support/manuals/plc/99582%20MMI-2XX.pdf

Thanks so much for your support!

Cal
 
Yes, I have the key assignments. though no documentation of original references in Ladder Logic

Functions such as "auto Process 1","auto enable" ,"manual" ,"auto" ," Valve 2", Gas 1" , "Gas 2", " Low Voltage Power". etc. 20 of the 24 key positions are occupied.
 

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