Ensuring payment

ceilingwalker

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Mar 2010
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Phoenix, AZ
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I hope to not sound unethical but I would like to know what you folks do to make sure you get paid, after a job? I did a side job about 4 years ago. I have given up on getting paid. They know I wont take it to court, I dont want the headache. To make matters worse, I used a fine vendor on this site for the hardware and this company didnt pay them either! What do you folks do to makes sure you get paid? I had a programmer tell me he puts "time bombs" in his code that will bring production to a halt, if not diffused. He diffuses it after he receives full payment. He told me "even an experienced programmer would have trouble finding and diffusing it". That sounds unethical to me but I now see his point. We work hard and not getting paid in full is unethical as well. Any ideas for my next side job? I worked hard on it, really long hours.
 
First, a signed purchase order before starting any work spelling out details of the work they're hiring me to do and a schedule of progress payments with a significant portion up front for brand new customers.
Second, the philosophy, "Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me". If you've got customers who stiff you on the final payment you should be looking for a better class of customer.
I am also on very good terms with a few other people in the area who do similar work. I always check to see if they have any experience with customers I don't know. You have the same right to check your customer's references as they have to check yours.
About the time bomb, one word. Don't.
 
Very interesting discussion. Thanks for bringing it up. A few days ago in a different post, one of our colleagues commented that adding such a disabling code could be illegal in the US. I am wondering whether there is there a specific code, whether federal or for some state which defines specifically such kinds of prohibitions?
 
I would think that if it is in the signed contract and the paying party is aware of it , it would be legal.
 
Don't call it a time bomb.
Call it a mistake!
Call from customer who is late on payment needing your services.
Machine won't run. He cant get you without paying so he calls in another guy.
This guy finds a bit of code that goes in circles in a routine called Mistake and fixes, now the guy owes two programmers! Or he pays you, you go to the site and say oops, I made a mistake. Its all better now.


Obviously I probably wouldn't do this. Just thinking, what could they really say, mistakes happen.
 
I would think that if it is in the signed contract and the paying party is aware of it , it would be legal.

It was completely legal. I can exercise my right and pursue litigation but, I only moonlight on my own. Before I accept any position I make my employer aware of it. This company knew all this and I let them take advantage of me. I worked a lot of hours on that project, first time I have ever been stiffed. I like to believe in Karma but would really like what I worked for. From now on I am going to find a way to give myself a little more leverage, that won't cost me an attorney.
 
Don't call it a time bomb.

Haha, those weren't my words, they were the words of the grumpy old programmer I met once. I worked on a job and the programmer would often complain that the job we were on didn't pay him for his last visit. I told him I would never go back, if they didn't pay me. He said "you have it all wrong. If they owe you money, you want to back....set up some time bombs this time and demand payment for all monies owed". If they don't pay again, their system don't run and they have to call me in or another programmer. Good luck to that other programmer finding what I did, let alone fixing it". I thought him to be under-handed, at the time. That was his livelihood, not supplemental, like in my case.
 
do you have a will - and is it all up to date? ...

reason I'm asking is that if you have a lawyer in mind who can help get your will in order - then maybe that same lawyer would be willing to send the deadbeat customer an official letter of notification that you're now pursuing legal action to collect the debt ... just ask the lawyer how much extra he'd charge just to send a letter ...

They know I wont take it to court, I dont want the headache.

maybe the deadbeats don't want a headache either - and an official letter from a lawyer might give them an incentive to just pay up and avoid the legal hassle - and maybe an assortment of threatened legal fees and court costs ...

I used a fine vendor on this site for the hardware and this company didnt pay them either!

have you talked to the vendor lately? ... maybe he needs his will updated too ... so maybe the deadbeat gets two lawyer letters in the mail on the same day ...

good luck with it ...
 
From the thread linked by Steve Bailey:

As a result, Siemens was unaware of the cause of the malfunction and required Tinley to fix these malfunctions.

The important part is the awareness. My current copy of Studio 5000 will stop working some time in February of 2021. That is in no way illegal because I was made aware that it would happen before I handed Rockwell any money. So in effect you would be providing the customer with trial software that requires a one-time license payment by a certain date or it ceases to function. Just make sure you wait until the machine is in a known safe state before disabling the software. AS LONG AS THE BUYER IS AWARE OF THIS you are standing on pretty firm ground.

Keith
 
The first thing you have to do is decide if you want to keep the client or not
I believe if they want to play games with paying you then I don’t need them as a client. What they are really doing is changing your terms of payment for your work to a no interest loan or in some cases a gift. Always after the job is done.
I have had many clients pull that on me. My terms have always been the same I complete the job I get paid in full (net 30) a large number take that to mean 90 days or longer or they get to decide when to pay. It seams to be a trend right now to change the agreement after the job is done.
Years ago I could do very large jobs with only a phone conversation and always get paid on time.
Now I have to have a PO or more and still have to be concerned with getting paid.
I have had managers give me a fake PO No over the phone just to get the repair done. Then I have to fight with accounts payable dept. to get the correct PO and get paid for my work usually 3 to 6 months later.
It seems to be worse with midsized companies.
On one client after the job was completed I was told that I would get paid if and when they got paid and made a profit. After a few months of sending demand letters I finely set a letter the their client ( The end user of the machine ) explaining that I was not paid for my work on their machine and I was preparing to file a lean on the machine. About a week later I received a check for the full amount along with a nsty phone call wanting to know why I didn’t allow then to change payment the terms after the job was complete.
While the machine was out of state they would still have to send somebody here to defend the lean. Most companies don’t want to do that and will just pay make sure you get paid.
While here the SOL is 2 years for small claims or leans. If as you said the job was over 4 years ago
Depending on the amount if you sent a demand letter to the end owner most likely they will pay up
They don’t want to go to court and have that expense and risk losing it’s cheaper to just pay and go back on the builder. Another option would be to file a complaint with the BBB.
While it is tempting to write a bomb code in the program you as opening yourself up to a legal battle if it causes damage or unnecessary down time.
I put them on a my black list and don’t do business with them unless it’s cash up front first.
 
I used to do it all the time and there is nothing unethical about it IF you tell the customer that it's there. If you buy a new CNC machine tool the big names put code in the program that has to be updated every month. You must keep up with payments or the machine doesn't start in the morning.
You have made a good faith effort and delivered a functioning machine, the other party has not complied with their end. This is business don't be the nice guy. Get a lawyer to go after them.
The only company that I had to sue was General Electric. I paid to have the sheriff deliver the summons personally to the plant manager. To say the buyer heard about it was an understatement.

I have also had customers that needed time to get some revenue from whatever I was selling. In this case I knew they were honest so I would willingly wait.
 
1) Don't release Source Code untill fully paid
2) Factor the delivery 30% on Order 70% on Delivery 95% on Successful Test - 100% and You get Source code.


3) Use Source protection or Download password / only download the Binary until the customer has paid fully
4) Put customer in a postion that if they do need support they have to come to you (eg password etc) and only give suppport if paid up fully.




Fool of a company who buys a machine and then can't service support it because FW is locked... They will come back cap in hand .... eventually or have to replace it.


Alternatelyly don't look at "timebombs" but look call it a license with limited time and an unlock for 6 months or unlock for a year or permenant.
 

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