Way OT – Employer/Employee Conflict

anon_guy

Member
Join Date
May 2006
Location
Texas
Posts
6
I recently proposed and got engaged to a woman I’ve known for many years. She has three kids (I have none) to which I have been “uncie” for most of their lives. We have been living together for a few months and at home all is well and everyone is extremely happy with life. We’ve, of course, been discussing when, where, and what type of wedding to have since we got engaged with an emphasis more on where than anything else because she does not want to get married here (nor do the kids).

I work for a very small company and have known the boss most of my life as I attended church with he and his family when I was a child. A couple of weeks ago my boss blind sided me by pulling me aside to show me a letter he’d received at home from what I’ll refer to as an anonymous coward (AC) claiming to be a church member (at the time he claimed it to be one of many, I now believe that there has only been one such letter). In this letter the AC made various claims about me and my personal life, some were true (we are living ‘in sin’) and some were not. Regardless he used this to lay his feelings on marriage before cohabitation and what my moral failings are. I bit my tongue, went through a rough chronology for him (at his request), and told him that like anyone else there are some things I would do differently (I wasn’t specific what things) if I could go back in time, but that I probably would be in the exact same situation I’m in now even if I could change those things I wish I’d done differently. At the time I asked him to let me know of any more AC type letters as this letter really got under my skin. The next day I told him that after thinking on it for an evening I really didn’t care to hear about any more ACs that didn’t have the guts to say to my face what they say behind my back.


My fiancé was none too pleased with any of this and took real issue with accusations made in the AC’s letter that she is a bad mother (woman scorned and all that). She also announced that we were not getting married to make my boss happy (no kidding hon).

So after a couple of weeks life in our house was getting back to normal and we’d started discussing the where part of the wedding again and for the most part everyone was happy again (the kids did not know about any of this).

Yesterday my boss sends me an email (from his office 40 feet away) asking if I’m going to update him on what we discussed after work a couple of weeks ago. I replied to his email saying that I fully intended to, but that there’s really nothing to report; to which he replies that at my earliest convenience we need to discuss options.

After thinking on it for a little bit, and waiting for him to return to his office, I walked in and closed the door (his door is never closed). The short version of what we talked about is that he wants to remove the word ‘manager’ from my title because he has an issue with new young impressionable employees (interns) that are starting in a week or so seeing me as a role model. He also said that he thinks if we’re really in love and this is the “real deal” then no one including him should stand in the way. Titles don’t have much meaning in our company nor our industry so removing the word ‘manager’ from my title isn’t really a big deal to me though I think he was probably thinking this would eat at my ego some.

Today I replied to an email sent by my boss to our design group about a new product idea. My boss replied to me individually to explain that my technical comments were we ‘appropriate’, but that other comments I made about possible markets were not appropriate per my ‘new responsibilities.’

So with this long winded story out, from an anonymous account of a regular member of the forum, I’d like to hear reactions from people who are a bit more removed from this.

Thanks guys.
 
It's none of your boss' business what you do outside of work. That is YOUR PERSONAL LIFE. He could actually get in legal trouble for what he is doing, I wonder if he realizes that.....

Take care and don't take any more of his ****. There are always greener pastures elsewhere.
 
Start looking for new employment immediately. He's your employer and its his company and his choice who can work there and unless you have a contract with him, I'm assuming that your employment arrangement is "at will". The ground work for a release may be on the horizon so its best to start looking now.

In the mean time do not use email for these discussions with your boss. My experience is that for issues this important, face to face conversation is the only thing appropriate. If he values your worth to the company this will work out. If not, on to greener pastures.
 
I think it's time you started looking for a new job. You may have a case for a lawsuit, but only if you're willing to pursue it.

Personally, I don't think you have a future with this company. It's obvious that the boss agrees with the AC, otherwise he would never have showed you the letter. There's a good chance that the AC is the boss.

Once you get married I can envision three scenarios for the future.

1. The boss will take a "go and sin no more" attitude and everything will be as it was before your trangression.

2. Even though you have "corrected" your behavior, you're forever under suspicion of backsliding and therefore not to be trusted.

3. Nothing you can ever do will be sufficient to make up for the shame you've brought on yourself and everyone associated with you.

Which scenario do you see as most likely?
 
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What your boss is doing is illegal. Period. He is endangering the financial well being of the company by exposing it to legal action which the company will 100% certianly loose and which a small company cannot afford. By exposing a small company to those riks he jeopardizes the lively-hood of every employee and ever member of the employee families.

I suggest you begin to document, if possible get statements in writing, save your emails, etc. Emails are admissible as evidence and will back up your word agains his word. If a constrcutive discharge is in the works (such as changing your job title) you have grounds for a suit which any lawyer would salivate to take because it is so cut and dry.

You also shoud make the statement to the boss that what he is doing is illegal. What ever you do, don't threaten him. Just make darn sure he understands that you understand your legal position. You already have gounds for a law suit.

Even if you don't want to proceed with any litigous actions and all is well with you, the boss needs to know that he cannot do what he did because who knows how the next person will respond - suppose he approaches a single female coworker in the future because she is living with a man or because she got pregnant. Not only may she sue him for constructive discharge, she will get a judgement for sexual harassment as well - destroying the company and your job as well as everyone elses, and your and your family's livelyhood with it.
 
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I would immediately do the following:

1) Advise your boss that your personal life is YOUR PERSONAL life. Your work performance is to be evaluated on that alone.

2) Unless your job description included moral guidance, make it clear to your boss that you do not intend to proselytize new employees about your lifestyle or theirs.

3) Advise your boss that you are going to report the incident to his boss, and that he is violating your civil rights, and that your former position and responsibilities should be restored immeditately.

4) Update your resume and get a new job ASAP. No matter how it all resolves, it cannot turn out well in the long run. You do not want to be exposing yourself to that kind of nonsense on an ongoing basis.

Some of my employees have lifestyles and/or relationships that I don't approve of. I keep my mouth shut about it. It is none of my business.
 
I agree with jstolaruk, except you have another option. Stop living in sin per se.

If you and your mate are serious about each other then end the issue by getting married, the best thing to do is have a big wedding in that church with the boss and coworkers invited. This act will inevitably end any issues at work and probably restore the "manager" title to your job description.

As mentioned, whether there are legalities involved or not, is that jobs are not contractual so the employer can dismiss you if not happy with your conduct.

Technically I married my wife because of a similar situation. She had 3 kids and we were living together which was not approved of by my boss and others. We have now been married 14 years and had 2 children together for a total of 4 boys and 1 girl (that rarely acts like a girl).

I do not regret getting married and the great part was once my boss found out he paid for it all, even bought the wedding rings.

It is up to you and your mate to decide what you want for the future.
 
rsdoran, I believe you are way off base. That is the peronal life of the employee and it is none of anyones business what that employee does outside of work.

The man said he does not want to get married there and it is completely up to him and his spouse when and where the cermony gets performed.

If you jump into a marriage just because you think it is right you will inevitably end up divorced, lose your Harley, house, boat, pay alimony....oh sorry that was my personal experiance. But if you rush things you will not like the outcome...

Just like in programming, we don't rush that do we? If we did we would all be looking for work elsewhere.


Just my opinion on your post...... I know everyones got one.
 
Webhead said:
The man said he does not want to get married there and it is completely up to him and his spouse when and where the cermony gets performed.

Hmmm, I read that he was the one that propsed the engagement. I dind't read that he didn't want to get married and after rereading it, I still can't see it. did I miss that somewhere?
 
I have to agree with Alaric; document everything if you haven't started. If you can get a copy of that letter or any others, that would be great too.

Your boss stepped over the bounds when he demoted you. Talking to you about a letter he recieved is no big deal, unless he showed the same opinion and did something then. At this point, any comment or email he says about it is uncalled for and just fuel for you.

The problem is, if you file legal suit will that hinder your future. If this is a job you have worked at for a long time, you may not get the best referance from them which may hurt. Future employers get a little jumpy when they hear lawsuit as reason for leaving.
 
I hope that you disregard everything that you read here and go to the only place that you can find the 'Truth'. As one who does or has attended Church I assume that you know where that is.
 
Wow, what century is this again? For a minute there I thought I fell through a wormhole a appeard in the 1800's. Anyway, do as Alaric says, what he is doing is 100% illegal.
 
RussB,

I would like to say I agree with what you are trying to say, sort of. The issue isn't with his religion, it's with what his boss is doing. I agree that the church would be a good place to go and clear the air with the minister or priest or whatever. But if his boss had an issue with what color he painted his house and demoted him for it, his boss would still be wrong (a little strange, but it's just a point). Maybe explaining to the minister the future plans could stop the trouble, but the damage has been done. What happens outside the workplace should stay outside the workplace, unless it effects the workplace. His living arrangements should have no bearing on his job. As long as he is performing as required and doing his job, he should not have been demoted because someone doesn't like the way he lives.

BY the way, Anon_guy, Congrats and Good luck in your marrage.
 
Two solutions:
1) Quit. Immediately.
Even if you need to go on unemployment.

2) File a discrimination lawsuit against your company immediately. Your personal life, is absolutely no business of your boss.
 
My documentation is pretty good; some might say it’s unrealistically good.

I do want to get married; I also want to get married when and where my fiancé and I decide.

Employment is at will, there is no employment contract.

This is the first and only job right out of college. Been here 7 years and truly enjoy the people I work with, the work I do, and the customers I work with.

Suing this company would be a career ender and a fruitless endeavor. The company is structured in such a way that a winner in a law suit winds up with very little to show for their efforts.

I’ve put out some job feelers in the last week, but so far no replies (though most probably thought it was a joke coming from me). Now that the line has truly been crossed with his comments yesterday and today I will dust off the resume and actually start looking… anyone need a good PLC/HMI guy with an EE degree?


The boss I’m referring to is the president and primary share holder (family company). There aren’t any higher heads to appeal to. Being a family company most of us here are friends in addition to coworkers.


Two other employees have had similar ‘transgressions’ and are both still employed. One now holds a Vice-President title and is typically the only one who can make the boss see reason when he’s gone astray. I have had one conversation with VP about this and while he does not agree with what I have done (or what he himself did) on a moral basis he also did not condemn me for my actions. His feelings on the boss’s actions (prior to this week) were that it’s a free market and either side in the employment can call it quits if desired. I intend to give him a call just as soon as he returns home.

The boss said in our closed door conversation yesterday that he sees the removal of the word ‘manager’ from my title as temporary, but indefinite. Like I said before, titles don’t really impress me much so I wasn’t too concerned after yesterday; however, his comment via email today does really pi$$ me off.

jthomes, thanks for the congrats from both me and my fiancé.

Russ, yes I know where the church is. I also have very deeply rooted beliefs when it comes to God and religion (yes I believe in God). My beliefs do not reconcile with any modern religion I am aware of and I am ok with that as well. In addition, before you ask, a year ago I would not have thought I would ever be living ‘in sin’ today but life has a tendency to throw situations at you that are full of issues you never even dreamed of. I will not go into my decision making process with you, but I am comfortable with my decisions to date.
 

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