HMI to Digital IO's without a PLC?

I'm wondering if there is a way to connect via RS232 a Red Lion HMI directly to a IO module via RS232 ... without using a PLC?


Is there such a thing out there .. a little network device that just creates digital IO's for relay closures, or Hex numeric commands to Linear motor drives that run stored curves by selection of Hex numbers.. Such as some of the LinMot drives.



If there is no such thing...and I must use a RS232 PLC..with an IO module (need 8 IO's) It cannot be Siemens, or Omron.. or Alan Bradley .. they want too much money for software, and updating firmware.



Gotta be simple.. and inexpensive... Thanks much for any ideas.

If you want inexpressive, buy a Click, and control it with the HMI. I know, that isn't what you asked, because the Click is a PLC...

Red Lion Graphite HMIs support expansion I/O. Red Lion also makes a controller that can be programmed like a PLC. I have not used either of these products. I don't find it very handy to have a bunch of I/O wiring to the back of an HMI that is usually mounted on the enclosure door.

The Graphite Control module adds PLC functionality to a Graphite HMI. The Graphite Edge controller is basically the same thing without the touchscreen. Either of these products will be more expensive than a Click.

Thanks for the quick reply OkiePC ... I'm wanting to use a legacy..Kadet G304K20U HMI just to input a hex number between 0-255.. which will set (8) output IO's in a hypothetical module that would be connected to a LinMot drive... this drive stores up to 100 curve files.. that will run continuously if you want.


I'm assuming the IO module needs the PlC to run on a network like RS232 .. and generally is not a stand alone device. I can imagine that such a thing could exist .. even should exist.



I already did this successfully using a Siemens S7 1200 series PLC & HMI But, it's just too expensive, and complicated. The PLC and IO module could be replaced by 8 toggle switches, but that would be tacky...

If possible, I would forgo the I/O and just connect the positioning drive to the HMI.

And if you do have to use 8 relay outputs, I'd use an Ethernet Click with a relay module, not RS-232.

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...cro_brick)/ac_i-z-o_-a-_relay_outputs/c0-08tr

The Ethernet Click will communicate over Ethernet using Modbus TCP. You will have to set its IP address, put a blank program in it and put it in run mode to allow the outputs to operate.

I know nothing about LinMot, but it would not surprise me if you could just talk directly to it with the HMI and make your motion profile selection that way using Ethernet or RS485 connected to the Kadet.

Thanks for the info... It might be possible to do that.. certainly much simpler.. I'll research that .. and get back to you... Thanks Regards, Michael

Dear OkiePC ... methinks you have something there .. The combination of a Click PLC and I/O expansion plus power supply running RS232 all for less tan 150$ looks great! The HMI only uses RS232.. and the Click "Basic" PLC is also RS232.. I might need a few extra IO's (created via the HMI) to manage the running of the LinMot Drive, so I'll get the IO expansion module which would be hard wired to the LinMot drive (it's all about simple IO's for this particular LinMot drive.

Lamboom said:

Dear OkiePC ... methinks you have something there .. The combination of a Click PLC and I/O expansion plus power supply running RS232 all for less tan 150$ looks great! The HMI only uses RS232.. and the Click "Basic" PLC is also RS232.. I might need a few extra IO's (created via the HMI) to manage the running of the LinMot Drive, so I'll get the IO expansion module which would be hard wired to the LinMot drive (it's all about simple IO's for this particular LinMot drive.

Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and buy the Ethernet Click. If your RS232 port is tied up communicating with your HMI, you don't want to have to swap cables back and forth during development / troubleshooting. Ethernet is too dang useful not to have, and the cost increase is minor.


-rpoet

If Redlion supports Modbus RTU, then there are some devices that supports Modbus RTU directly.
For example https://beckhoff.de/english/bus_terminal/bk7350.htm?id=11694920828176

Hi all... I don't have any choice.. the only input/output of "this" Red Lion is RS232... It's one of the early "Kadet" series G3's It's only a 4 inch model ... the really cool Red Lions start with the G306 and have multiple protocols for communication.. there's only one way in or out via a DB9 connector ... .. well the connector will change to a Ethernet type connector at the CLICK .. RJ12 methinks.

Hi rpoet I like the CLICK... must research a driver for the Red Lion to interface with it. Will contact Red Lion Support an' ask if they ever created a driver for the Click PLC.... Thanks again, Regards, Michael

Lamboom said:

Hi rpoet I like the CLICK... must research a driver for the Red Lion to interface with it. Will contact Red Lion Support an' ask if they ever created a driver for the Click PLC.... Thanks again, Regards, Michael

Click to expand...

I'd be shocked if Red Lion didn't have a Click-specific driver. They pretty much have the market cornered on being able to talk to everything. At the very least, it can do MODBUS RTU.

You said in an earlier post that your HMI only has an RS232 port; my advice still stands. Order the Click with an Ethernet port. It makes programming much simpler and you don't have to deal with any USB --> RS232 dongles.


-rpoet

Thanks again RPOET I do like the CLICK, and Red Lion says it does have a driver. I got a real nice email from ADC Support .. pointed out how it would work with Modbus TRU or ASCII .. which Red Lion can do.. I love TCP/IP Ethernet ... and I did obtain a G304K200 R.L. HMI so Ethernet is possible. I decided to try doing both.. ADAM remote I/O Module and CLICK ... This is a Covid project... and the Pandemic is going to be with us for many years to be continued... Regards, Michael


PS... I haven't seen the CLICK driver from Red Lion yet.. Here's a list of all of their drivers: https://www.redlion.net/cables-drivers


I'll try to get Red Lion Support to explain it.. The driver comes with the Crimson 3 programming software ... so, you select it in the first setup of the Database for the HMI.

When I have used a Red Lion HMI with a Click, I have used the Modbus driver. The Click only supports Modbus RTU or ASCII on its serial ports and Modbus TCP or Ethernet/IP as an adpater on the Ethernet port. In the Click Software you can open the address picker and check the box to Display Modbus addresses to see how they should be identified in Crimson.

Be aware that the Word Ordering is "Low Then High" for the device settings in Crimson for a Click.

I also have disabled Code 15 in the device settings for use with a Click. I am not 100% sure why I did that, but have slept since then, so either it was a trial I forgot to change back, or was needed to get everything to work.

Also, I think even the old G304K had a RS485 port...yes, pinned weird in the same 9 pin connector as the RS-232 port...but it's there.

But if you have Ethernet, by all means use Modbus TCP and always buy the Ethernet Click...that extra $20 will pay you back so fast, it is not even worthwhile to buy a Click without it.

Great Aadvice OkiePC ! I'm ordering one as we speak...


You are suggesting the MODBUS driver in Red Lion programming software:

https://www.redlion.net/cables-drivers


This is not what I would have done (see my post replying to rpoet


I guess I'm not real clear on how this is going to work.. so glad you did it... methinks you will be hearing from me again.


Thanks much....

okiePC PS: Yes, the older G304K000 is pinned funny.. As I have both HMIs, I'll try and make them both work .. just for something to do.. Red Lion's latest Crimson 3 Software is supposed to work with both discontinued models now ... But, I'll start with the G304K200


I have been able to program both HMIs .. so, there's some progress.