What's the least expensive VFD with a Profibus option?

I have no love for Control Techniques. They are the some of the most unintuitive drives I have worked with. I have never used Invertek or LS. Have you used all 3? Which do you prefer?

I've not used Profibus at all, and I assume it's a little challenging the first time with any manufacturer.

Invertek and LS are both new to me, but I have a couple opportunities to check them out soon, so I am looking in to them.

I know the CT drive very well, just not all the fieldbus options. I agree that you can get lost in the 1000's of parameters and multiple menus, but the good news is that there are 1000's of parameters that can get you out of trouble without having to add additional hardware or go to a different brand for different applications. But, for simple applications, the Menu 0 (User Menu) handles 90% of the applications quickly and easily. And, the (free) software is some of the best I've worked with.
 
What is the application ?
"150 hp" doesnt say much.
Do you need safety ?
Motion ?
High torque ?
etc...
LD mentioned Siemens S120, but these are higer-end drives. Maybe Siemens G120 which are a bit less expensive are good enough for your application.

I don't know those things yet. Customer had a 150hp Parker 690+ drive suffer internal cadcading explosions, and the damage seems to have taken a path guided by pure spite, into every component that is unobtainium. They removed and brought to me for repair, I didn't see the application. All I know is they have a tight budget and the closest p/n for a used replacement drive I can find is $15k. I am just evaluating options, making a list of potentials, and if every other repair/direct replacement option is taken off the table and I know I'll have to replace with a different make/model of drive, I'll evaluate the application and choose something from the list that meets the minimum criteria. So far the only criteria I have is profibus, so that's where I'm starting.
 
Aren’t those the old SSD drives?

My two cents
Make sure you know internally what’s going on before you replace.
Especially if your the guy who has to make it work after replacing
I recall you can have plc type logic in those?
 
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I've not used Profibus at all, and I assume it's a little challenging the first time with any manufacturer.

Invertek and LS are both new to me, but I have a couple opportunities to check them out soon, so I am looking in to them.

I know the CT drive very well, just not all the fieldbus options. I agree that you can get lost in the 1000's of parameters and multiple menus, but the good news is that there are 1000's of parameters that can get you out of trouble without having to add additional hardware or go to a different brand for different applications. But, for simple applications, the Menu 0 (User Menu) handles 90% of the applications quickly and easily. And, the (free) software is some of the best I've worked with.

It's not complexity or quantity of parameters that I find daunting, it's... intuitive-ness? I know there has to be a perfect word that says what I want to say, but I don't know what it is. I'm going to hurt myself trying to turn my abstract thoughts into words, so I'll fall back to analogies:

CT is like the Siemens PLC of the VFD world. It's probably really great for people who specialize in it, but for everyone else it kinda sucks. For people who work with VFDs from numerous MFGs there is a certain sort of expectation you will have upon encountering a new drive you've never touched; how it will work, what parameters it will have, what those parameters will do, etc. And you can have quick success with something that you just now heard of, as long as it fits the pattern of your previous experiences. Unless it is a CT drive. They don't fit the pattern. Nothing makes sense relative to other drives. Not intuitive. (IMO). And the documentation follows the same. Things are not worded in the way that would immediately make sense to anyone who doesn't work in Emerson's dungeons.
 
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Aren’t those the old SSD drives?

My two cents
Make sure you know internally what’s going on before you replace.
Especially if your the guy who has to make it work after replacing
I recall you can have plc type logic in those?

Yes, Parker AKA SSD AKA Eurotherm, AKA ETC. They are high end drives with internal PLC and can be anything inside from a dumb soft start to complex. The OEM of the machine uses them for every application. From my customer's description it does not sound like a complex application though. I am waiting for them to get the Siemens PLC program from the OEM so I can see what was being sent to it over profibus, that should be a good clue as to what was going on in the drive.
 
... the bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten

So true. This should be someone's signature line. If I repeat this, should I attribute you? Or are you quoting someone else?

As a 3rd party it isn't any of any consequence to me; if anything, it benefits me when people insist on low price at the expense of compromised quality. It drives up repeat business. My first suggestion will always be a higher quality option, but I will never insist on it. I put it out there, if it isn't accepted then so be it. But as a customer you would be better off (in my opinion) to heed my suggestion. I have your best interest in mind. I want you (and me) to be happy with my work. But I will settle for perpetual field service tickets; after all, money is nearly as important to me as pride.
 
It's not complexity or quantity of parameters that I find daunting, it's... intuitive-ness? I know there has to be a perfect word that says what I want to say, but I don't know what it is. I'm going to hurt myself trying to turn my abstract thoughts into words, so I'll fall back to analogies:

CT is like the Siemens PLC of the VFD world. It's probably really great for people who specialize in it, but for everyone else it kinda sucks. For people who work with VFDs from numerous MFGs there is a certain sort of expectation you will have upon encountering a new drive you've never touched; how it will work, what parameters it will have, what those parameters will do, etc. And you can have quick success with something that you just now heard of, as long as it fits the pattern of your previous experiences. Unless it is a CT drive. They don't fit the pattern. Nothing makes sense relative to other drives. Not intuitive. (IMO). And the documentation follows the same. Things are not worded in the way that would immediately make sense to anyone who doesn't work in Emerson's dungeons.

I agree totally! Although Parker, Siemens, and some others are just as complex and powerful. I remember when I first started working with them. It took 5 minutes to get working, then I wanted to make a few changes for an application. I broke it and it took me forever to figure out how to get it going again. I found the block diagram view and it was very simple from there to track the signals to the sequencer and speed loop to figure out where the problem was.

I know some of the PLC’s and Drives are absolutely convoluted in the way you have to stand on your head and hold your tongue just right to beat them into submission, but once you learn the secret sauce, it burns a permanent image in your brain that sticks (for the most part).
 
Ok I have more details about the application (attached).

It is a master/slave(follower) setup and this is the slave. It has 2 encoder inputs; one from the master motor and one from its own motor. It receives only one tag over profibus, a ratio value, and transmits nothing back. Primary speed reference is the master motor speed, multiplied by the ratio. There are some jog modes and a few other advanced things going on, some flycatching, etc. not exactly an out of the box application. I'm researching the capabilities of the suggestions so far, starting with Invertek, but I am wondering if anyone can save me some time, tell me if there is anything I can cross off the list straight away, or something I might need to add to it.
 
Siemens S120 CU310-2 with DP , add an SMC30 (for extra encoder)and a PM240-2 (Power module)
You could do this application just like your diagrams show
But not without some training or integrator help

Probably best to stick with CT since you know it

Also your diagram on sheet 3 has this drive being 75kw at 82amp. That’s not 150hp

A low end drive will not do this application. Your
diagrams show phasing etc.
 
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I ended up going with a brand new parker direct replacement.

What reminded me to come back and update is, I had the pleasure of troubleshooting and spec'ing the replacement of an Emerson/Control Techniques VS3 drive yesterday and it ripped off old scabs. There is no modified parameters menu. And no comms port on the drive. If you're not going to put a comms port on a drive then it should have a modified parameters menu. It should have that menu regardless, but especially if no comms port. How do I know the particulars of the application to spec a replacement? Or even if I want to direct replace with the same p/n? I must go through each and every parameter one at a time, comparing against the manual. That is ridiculous. It feels like a big middle finger from Emerson to me and everyone else who has to work on the things.
 
Maybe not the cheapest, but ubiquitous, and probably a lot more availability (used) than the Parker 690 it should replace. Would like to exhaust all options for new (cheap) replacements first.

Parkers new series AC30V is maybe an option, product code 31V-4J0205-BE-2S-0000 , they also have the AC10 series but not with profibus only modbus

EDIT: Sorry didn't read the whole thread before I answered.
 
I ended up going with a brand new parker direct replacement.

What reminded me to come back and update is, I had the pleasure of troubleshooting and spec'ing the replacement of an Emerson/Control Techniques VS3 drive yesterday and it ripped off old scabs. There is no modified parameters menu. And no comms port on the drive. If you're not going to put a comms port on a drive then it should have a modified parameters menu. It should have that menu regardless, but especially if no comms port. How do I know the particulars of the application to spec a replacement? Or even if I want to direct replace with the same p/n? I must go through each and every parameter one at a time, comparing against the manual. That is ridiculous. It feels like a big middle finger from Emerson to me and everyone else who has to work on the things.

I've never heard of a CT drive model VS3????

There have been a few (short lived) low end models which didn't have a comms port (or option module available), but must have been 20+ years ago.

But anyway, there's a setting in Parameter MM.00 (any menu, parameter 0)

Parameter mm.000 (mm.000) value Action Possible failures
1000 Save drive user save parameters to non-volatile memory. Power-down save parameters are saved when the drive enters the under voltage state. No action if the drive is in the under voltage state
1001 Save drive parameters to non-volatile memory. It should be noted that power-down save parameters are also saved which will result in one background task scan being extended to 200ms.
1070 Reset all option modules
1233 Load 50Hz defaults No action if the drive is enabled
1234 Load 50Hz defaults to all menus except option module menus (i.e 15 to 20 and 24 to 28) No action if the drive is enabled
1244 Load 60Hz defaults No action if the drive is enabled
1245 Load 60Hz defaults to all menus except option module menus (i.e 15 to 20 and 24 to 28) No action if the drive is enabled
1299 Reset Stored HF trip.
2001 Create a boot file on a non-volatile media card based on the present drive parameters including all Menu 20 parameters Non-volatile media card trips
4xxx NV media card: Transfer the drive parameters to parameter file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
5xxx NV media card: Transfer the onboard user program to onboard user program file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
6xxx NV media card: Load the drive parameters from parameter file xxx or the onboard user program from onboard user program file xxx No action if the drive is enabled
Non-volatile media card trips
7xxx NV media card: Erase file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
8xxx NV Media card: Compare the data in the drive with file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
9555 NV media card: Clear the warning suppression flag Non-volatile media card trips
9666 NV media card: Set the warning suppression flag Non-volatile media card trips
9777 NV media card: Clear the read-only flag Non-volatile media card trips
9888 NV media card: Set the read-only flag Non-volatile media card trips
12000 Only display parameters that are different from their default value. This action does not require a drive reset.
12001 Only display parameters that are used to set-up destinations (i.e. DE format bit is 1). This action does not require a drive reset.
59999 Deletes an onboard user program if a program is present.

Note: Any parameter changes that have not been saved will be lost during this action. No action if the drive is enabled.
No action if there is no program present.
No action if the user program is enabled (i.e. Onboard User Program: Enable (11.047) = 1)
 
I've never heard of a CT drive model VS3????

There have been a few (short lived) low end models which didn't have a comms port (or option module available), but must have been 20+ years ago.

But anyway, there's a setting in Parameter MM.00 (any menu, parameter 0)

Parameter mm.000 (mm.000) value Action Possible failures
1000 Save drive user save parameters to non-volatile memory. Power-down save parameters are saved when the drive enters the under voltage state. No action if the drive is in the under voltage state
1001 Save drive parameters to non-volatile memory. It should be noted that power-down save parameters are also saved which will result in one background task scan being extended to 200ms.
1070 Reset all option modules
1233 Load 50Hz defaults No action if the drive is enabled
1234 Load 50Hz defaults to all menus except option module menus (i.e 15 to 20 and 24 to 28) No action if the drive is enabled
1244 Load 60Hz defaults No action if the drive is enabled
1245 Load 60Hz defaults to all menus except option module menus (i.e 15 to 20 and 24 to 28) No action if the drive is enabled
1299 Reset Stored HF trip.
2001 Create a boot file on a non-volatile media card based on the present drive parameters including all Menu 20 parameters Non-volatile media card trips
4xxx NV media card: Transfer the drive parameters to parameter file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
5xxx NV media card: Transfer the onboard user program to onboard user program file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
6xxx NV media card: Load the drive parameters from parameter file xxx or the onboard user program from onboard user program file xxx No action if the drive is enabled
Non-volatile media card trips
7xxx NV media card: Erase file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
8xxx NV Media card: Compare the data in the drive with file xxx Non-volatile media card trips
9555 NV media card: Clear the warning suppression flag Non-volatile media card trips
9666 NV media card: Set the warning suppression flag Non-volatile media card trips
9777 NV media card: Clear the read-only flag Non-volatile media card trips
9888 NV media card: Set the read-only flag Non-volatile media card trips
12000 Only display parameters that are different from their default value. This action does not require a drive reset.
12001 Only display parameters that are used to set-up destinations (i.e. DE format bit is 1). This action does not require a drive reset.
59999 Deletes an onboard user program if a program is present.

Note: Any parameter changes that have not been saved will be lost during this action. No action if the drive is enabled.
No action if there is no program present.
No action if the user program is enabled (i.e. Onboard User Program: Enable (11.047) = 1)



Sorry, I added the S. Unidrive V3, not VS3. P/N UNI1405. It is about 13 years old.

attachment.php



It does not have that option for menu 0.


attachment.php


Screenshot_20200730-011835_Drive.jpg Screenshot_20200730-012635_Google.jpg
 
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