Checking what you think about backing up Panel Builder 32 HMI programs files.

AutomationTechBrian · Jul 6, 2020

I just finished making my 3rd service call to a large machine shop, troubleshooting PLC issues. I can see that none of the PLC or HMI programs are backed up, and it's all legacy Allen Bradley so far. So, I mentioned to them that we've been lucky that none of the PLCs or HMIs have lost their programs. We then discussed the idea of going through everything and backing up programs. They counted all the PLCs and found they had 45. I've got the current AB software, plus RSLogix 500, but not Panel Builder 32. I used PB in school, and I have one customer that I re-did their HMIs with their own PB 32, on their computer. Now, I just got a quote from my local AB distributor... about $650. Not sure if that's a reasonable price or not. But regardless, it's a valuable program for someone like me who sees a lot of legacy hardware.

But my question is, will I have any issues hooking up to existing legacy Panelview HMIs and uploading the file? I've just assumed I can do this, without asking anyone. I suspect that I won't be able to convert anything back from the runtime file to make it editable, but at least we could save the file, and then check Ebay for a replacement if needed. For you guys with the legacy AB experience, will I be able to upload files, and are there other considerations to think about before I start?

I also think its just a matter of time before I get a customer wanting me to update their legacy HMI to a new one. This must be something others are doing, so I'm casually gathering my thoughts about getting prepared for that service.

dmroeder · Jul 6, 2020

AutomationTechBrian said:
I just finished making my 3rd service call to a large machine shop, troubleshooting PLC issues. I can see that none of the PLC or HMI programs are backed up, and it's all legacy Allen Bradley so far. So, I mentioned to them that we've been lucky that none of the PLCs or HMIs have lost their programs. We then discussed the idea of going through everything and backing up programs. They counted all the PLCs and found they had 45. I've got the current AB software, plus RSLogix 500, but not Panel Builder 32. I used PB in school, and I have one customer that I re-did their HMIs with their own PB 32, on their computer. Now, I just got a quote from my local AB distributor... about $650. Not sure if that's a reasonable price or not. But regardless, it's a valuable program for someone like me who sees a lot of legacy hardware.

But my question is, will I have any issues hooking up to existing legacy Panelview HMIs and uploading the file? I've just assumed I can do this, without asking anyone. I suspect that I won't be able to convert anything back from the runtime file to make it editable, but at least we could save the file, and then check Ebay for a replacement if needed. For you guys with the legacy AB experience, will I be able to upload files, and are there other considerations to think about before I start?

I also think its just a matter of time before I get a customer wanting me to update their legacy HMI to a new one. This must be something others are doing, so I'm casually gathering my thoughts about getting prepared for that service.

They are on borrowed time, it would be wise to back them up. It's hard to imagine an argument against it.

I haven't worked with those files in a while, but i believe the file that you will upload can be edited with PanelBuilder 32. Maybe there is some revision threshold where this isn't true?

We get customers regularly finding out the hard way that they're basically out of luck when the terminal fails. We end up doing some emergency conversions occasionally. It would be a good idea to get a plan together for getting them replaced with something more modern.

AutomationTechBrian · Jul 6, 2020

One thing I'm thinking about, is that after I upload the files, I'll have several files to *explore* upgrading. Like I've said before, until you try something, you don't know what you don't know. I previously had one customer asking about a quote to update an old panelview. I started down that path with a little uncertainty, but once the customer got an idea what new PVs cost, they decided to postpone it. I suspect I'll have upgrades in my future... probably lots of them, based on my customers' legacy equipment. I'm anxious to get a few under my belt so I feel more confident about what I'm doing.

alan_505 · Jul 7, 2020

If the PanelView Standard has a very full program it may not have been downloaded with the backup part, you can still get the program out but it must be installed an an exact match for the PanelView you got it from, and will not be able to be edited with PanelBuilder 32.

Also be aware that some of the PanelViews will not have s serial port to be able to upload from.

Alan

OkiePC · Jul 7, 2020

Spend the $650. That is about right. Surprisingly, that price has actually gone down slightly in the past few years. I say spend it because you will gather info from the uploads of the HMIs that can help you fill in the blanks for the comments in the associated PLCs. PB32 can export its tag database directly into RSLogix 500 formats so with a few checks and clicks you can make a big leap in documenting the PLC code. It will save you more than it will cost if your time is valuable and you care about having commented PLC code.

James Mcquade · Jul 7, 2020

if I remember correctly, there are 3 different time frames to deal with (depending on how old these units are). there was a required upgrade around version 2.4, and another one (I can't remember). the early version is the one I had trouble with. the last version of panelbuilder that I am familiar with is 3.83.01
regards,
james

MikeyN · Jul 7, 2020

If I can offer up one piece of advice, install it on an machine that has a version of RSLinx before 4.0.0. They stopped supporting the PanelView Standard entirely at this version. You can still browse to a PV and see it in RSLinx, but when you try to upload or download, you get a version error.

I have PanelBuilder 3.83.01 (Build 7) with RSLinx Rev 3.51.01 CPR 9 SR 5.1 installed on a WinXP Pro SP3 VMWare Workstation 14 Pro. I have had no problems uploading, downloading, or editing files that I have uploaded with this setup.

plvlce · Jul 7, 2020

There is also a workaround for the issue with the newer RSLinx versions, in case using an earlier version is problematic: http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=115100

Drew Ethridge · Jul 7, 2020

I am in the process of doing something similar. We have found that our version of PanelView is getting harder and harder to find. We are rewriting our PB32 application in FT. I haven't tested the new app yet, but so far the conversion has been straight forward. I have found a couple of items of note.

1 - All of our PVs have an RS232 port and I have been able to upload and edit the application. That is, if the port still works. I have one that I cannot upload.

2 - Our PVs use DH+. I don't think this protocol is available any more or if it is available, it was not available in a unit that had the same dimensions as the old unit. In any case, since I could not get a unit with DH+ I will have to add an Ethernet module to communicate to the PLC. My point is, there may be more than rewriting the application. Check your hardware requirements as well.

JohnCalderwood · Jul 7, 2020

Drew Ethridge said:
I am in the process of doing something similar. We have found that our version of PanelView is getting harder and harder to find. We are rewriting our PB32 application in FT. I haven't tested the new app yet, but so far the conversion has been straight forward. I have found a couple of items of note.

1 - All of our PVs have an RS232 port and I have been able to upload and edit the application. That is, if the port still works. I have one that I cannot upload.

2 - Our PVs use DH+. I don't think this protocol is available any more or if it is available, it was not available in a unit that had the same dimensions as the old unit. In any case, since I could not get a unit with DH+ I will have to add an Ethernet module to communicate to the PLC. My point is, there may be more than rewriting the application. Check your hardware requirements as well.

There are Ethernet to DH/RIO converters out there, but they are not cheap.
We will have to look at these if we have to change our old panelviews, but not get the budget to change out our PLC5 systems that drive the PVs

Helliana · Jul 7, 2020

I would recommend making a Windows XP virtual machine for Panelbuilder32 that has an older version of RSlinx. It will run on Windows 7 with an older version of Linx, but PB32 technically only supports up to Windows Vista. PB32 WILL NOT run with new versions of RSLinx required for newer versions of Studio5000, so they cannot be installed on the same machine. When i asked Rockwell about it, I got "PB32 does not support Win7" so i just stuck with using it in a XP VM.

OkiePC · Jul 7, 2020

I have been running the latest version of PB32 on Windows 7 and Windows 10 using the workaround referenced above. I used to always recommend using a memory card for program transfers (because it worked for all of the standards except the 300 Micro) but it has been a long time since I saw a laptop with a PCMCIA slot so now I use RSLinx for uploads and downloads and have lots of cables in my truck.

Checking what you think about backing up Panel Builder 32 HMI programs files.

AutomationTechBrian

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dmroeder

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AutomationTechBrian

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alan_505

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OkiePC

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James Mcquade

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MikeyN

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plvlce

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Drew Ethridge

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JohnCalderwood

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Helliana

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OkiePC

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