Selection of Industrial PC

audijus

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Join Date
Oct 2010
Location
Vilnius
Posts
1
Hello,

We are developing smart logistics system and struggling on selection control system concept. Maybe you guys could help to decide? First of all I would like start with short description what we need:

1. System low-level control (PLC control). There are a lot of sensors, actuators, industrial robot for pick & place and so on. We need software PLC for handling I/Os, giving pick and place tasks for industrial robot and execute communication interface to middle level control system;
2. Middle-level control. Here we will have machine vision algorithms and .NET based applications for data mining, optimization of low-level controls based on data analysis from statistics. Basically it will be machine learning application which will optimize industrial robot paths and working sequence by forecasting actions ahead based on statistics. Also in the future for products identification/verification/sorting and picking operations we are planning to use deep learning algorithms, but it is next project stage and I guess we will use separate GPU powered Industrial AI computer for this purpose, so at the moment this functionality is not necessary. I guess there is no such IPC which is capable to run software PLC on hypervisor technology and has powerful GPU with a lot of Cuda cores for deep learning;
3. High-level control. ERP and Warehouse Management System, which will be on different machines, so only interface implementation will be necessary on this machine.

Previously I wanted to use hardware PLC + Industrial PC (PLC for low-level control tasks and Industrial PC for middle and high level control tasks), but then I thought why use hardware PLC when there are Industrial PCs on the market which has software PLC solutions. It is possible to achieve all these tasks on one machine. Actually, I'm considering about these brands and their products:

1. B&R APC910 with Intel Core i7 6820EQ, Quad core, 2.8 GHz + Automation Panel;
2. Beckhoff Panel PC CP22xx-0030 with Intel Core i7-9700TE, 1.8 GHz, 8 cores;
3. Siemens SIMATIC IPC677D with Xeon E3-1268Lv3, 4 cores, 2.3 Ghz. Actually wanted to select SIMATIC IPC677E with Core i7-8700, 6 cores and 3.2 Ghz, but it looks like it does not compatible with S7-1500 software controller;

What do you guys think about each brand and their products? What kind of experiences you had and which setup you would select? Maybe it is worth to check other brands as well? I see there are a lot of Industrial PCs manufacturers, but only some of them could offer IPCs with software PLCs based on hypervisor technology. For me personally it looks like B&R, Beckhoff and Siemens has the most advanced products.
 
They are all good systems, but I would lean towards the Beckhoff system as integration with .NET applications will be much more seamless. For what you describe, I think it is the ideal choice. The price for IO modules is usually very competitive too.
 
Anymore I would never put another PC on the production floor, only thin clients.
Industrial PCs always fail and in a couple of years you cant get part and the operating system is not supported anymore. It's just not worth it when you consider how cheap thin clients are vs a PC. But use a good program like Thin Manager so you can have near instant fail-over and redundancy, and real easy to replace a failed thin client box.
Another nice feature of Thin Manager is you can run your app on just about anything with an Ethernet connection, iPad, phone etc. Great for trouble-shooting.
 
Last edited:
B&R and Beckhoff are both good choices, especially if you are doing robotics kinematics. I would lean B&R, but that's simply because I have a lot more experience with them than I do Beckhoff. Both provide an easy path to communicating from your machine learning side to the PLC side of things.

They're rivals, B&R and Beckhoff, and as such, they tend to copy each other and end up with very similar product lines and capabilities. You can't really go too wrong with either and I consider them both the cutting edge of the PLC world.
 
What do you guys think about each brand and their products?
That is a huge question not easily answered.
I consider both B&R ad Beckhoff to be primarily aimed at machines. Siemens is more general purpose, which includes small and big plants up to process control.

Industrial PCs always fail and in a couple of years you cant get part and the operating system is not supported anymore.
My experience with Siemens IPCs (427x) is that they last well. Support is as good as for regular PLCs. A version only lasts about 5 years (*), but usually the replacement works 1-to-1 or there is a migration path, i.e. 427D to 427E.

*: I mean before being replaced by another variant.
 
1. B&R APC910 with Intel Core i7 6820EQ, Quad core, 2.8 GHz + Automation Panel;
2. Beckhoff Panel PC CP22xx-0030 with Intel Core i7-9700TE, 1.8 GHz, 8 cores;
3. Siemens SIMATIC IPC677D with Xeon E3-1268Lv3, 4 cores, 2.3 Ghz. Actually wanted to select SIMATIC IPC677E with Core i7-8700, 6 cores and 3.2 Ghz, but it looks like it does not compatible with S7-1500 software controller;
Any reason why you chose IPCs with integrated monitor ?
I think there are plenty reasons to split the monitor from the PC, even for a solution with an industrial PC.

A panel PC will be much more exposed than a rack or cabinet PC.
If the screen is broken you have to replace the entire unit.
You pay excessively more to have the screen in the IPC.
Monitors age over time. The brightness decrease significantly. A control system may have to last 10-15 years.
Resisitive touch screens are very prone to going defective. Capacitive are better, but the IPCs with capacitive touch screens are usually very expensive.
You are usually limited for size and resolution with an IPC with integrated screen.
 

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