Siemens S7 hardware Structure Designe

farrei

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Aug 2007
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pakistan
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Dear Guys Specialy Jespeer


i am working in Cement industry. My plant is On S5 system. my company is going upgrade system to Siemens S7. We have to use Cemart. My question is that i have to type of configuration tell me which is good price is no matter.

1 S7 416 cpu with etherNet CP and for I/Os ET200 with S7 300 Signal modules (All Wires from fields are already connected in Plc Substaion no new wiring)

2 S7 416 CPU with etheNet Cp and S7 400 I/O cards.

please tell me which one is suitable.

more ever please tell me s7 400 are more power full and fast or S7 300. and is it better if i use ET200 Module with 300 Sm rether then S7 400 Cards.


i need ans soon thanks in advance


Adnan
 
Hello Adnan.

Those are actually good questions.
"Price is no matter", you mean that low cost is not top priority ?

ET200M (S7-300 modules on DP) or S7-400 modules ?
I personally do not like high density i/o modules, and I also do not like to place everything in a centrally located rack.
If there is the possibility for it, I would use distributed i/o on Profibus.
S7-400 i/o can be exchanged during run. To get the same with ET200M, you need "active backplanes". See my comment below.

Is S7-400 more powerful than S7-300 ?
Generally yes, except for the S7 319-3PN/DP which is at least as powerful as any current S7-400 CPU.

What I think is a really relevant advantage with S7-400 is the possibility to create redundant systems, with both CPUs , networks and i/o being redundant. If you start to consider this you move up in another class altogether. It will be much much more expensive, but probably worth it for a large plant running in 24/7 operation.
Redundant i/o is only possible with Profibus DP and ET200M with active bacplanes.
 
Hi Jesper

Since very long time I am asking for sample program for CPU 412 2DP, with UR2H rack, because I don't have other than these CPUs
Is it possible to form redundancy on two 412 2DP CPUs? If yes please send sample program.

Thanks in advance
 
ggchavhan said:
Hi Jesper

Since very long time I am asking for sample program for CPU 412 2DP, with UR2H rack, because I don't have other than these CPUs
Is it possible to form redundancy on two 412 2DP CPUs? If yes please send sample program.

Thanks in advance

Given Jesper posted this thread recently I don't think your chances are good. If the question is worth asking (i.e. you can't solve it by googling or reading the manuals) then start a new thread instead of trying to hijack someone else's on a totally different topic.
 
thanks jespeer But

my 2nd Question was that

is S7 400 I/O cards are powerfull or S7 300 I/O cards.


you said that you are in Favoure of Et200 with with S7 300 I/O modules. my projest is 7000 I/Os and 10 S7 300 Slave Cpues with 6 no of S7 400 Master CPUs.

In my opinion when we use Et 200 I/Os then it takes as profibus I/Os or Soft I/Os. In Siemens S7 300 i Experience a problme of Process image areas that we have s7 315 2dp comunicating with Siemens BW500 Weighing Controller we after some time we have to change the process image area address when we use 2 no of BW 500
Same problme is comming in my previous job we have intelligent mcc of ABB communicatig with S7 300 . Is it you experience such problme ever in S7 400?

if i use 7000 Et 200M I/Os i am Affraid i get same problme do you agree or not.
 
On the last upgrade I did we used the ET200S range. Much easier to wire than the high density modules from the ET200M range. Another factor in the choice of ET200S over ET200M was the availability of low cost serial modules.

Because of the way the ET200S is assembled it is easy to expand the I/O base later if required.
 
I am not sure what you mean by "powerful" when it comes to i/o cards.
You can find the exact specs for the cards you plan to use and compare them.

If you have a very large project, then you need a CPU with a large i/o proces image. Otherwise you will have to use PI/PQ adresses, and that may add an unnecessary complexity.
Generally S7-400 have bigger proces image than S7-300.

The Profibus i/o will use the same proces image as the i/o in an eventual S7-300 or S7-400 rack. No difference there.

I also prefer ET200S over ET200M/S7-300. But there is no "active backplane" with ET200S, in case this is important to you.
 
ok

thanks Guys for reply.
Jespeer
powerfull mean in term of scan time or processing speed. i have CPU and i/os in same panel and cpus connected with fiber because site area is 2 Km Square.i use ET200s or ET200M if i hv to use I/Os in field Pannels to reduce cabling that is my opinion now all cables are in Subsatation already there and if use et200m it is in same pannel with CPU i mean no distributed System i have to use central configuration in that i think S7 400 I/O cards Should be used because they are with same family and the I/os transmition time from I/O card to CPU is less then i use Profibus. and i also have 10 DP Slaves with 6 S7 400 CPUs. more Ever if i used S7 300 Modules then panel wiring is more complex then i use S7 400 I/Os.

What you think that is last question.

After your Ans i am able to take some dicsion

Thanks
 
To me it sounds like you have already taken your decision.
If you setup S7-400 racks interconncted with IM modules, it will have a faster scanning time than distributed Profibus i/o.
The question is if i/o response time is a problem or not.
You can try to setup a sample project with Profibus @ 1.5M and pure master-slave. Then observe the Token Rotation Time in the bus parameters. I just made a test with 27 ET200M stations with all 32 channel i/o cards (making for approx 7000 i/o). TTr was 44 ms, and TTrtyp was 12 ms. These values have to be added to the response time of the i/o cards.
You can get better response times by splitting the Profibus network into 2 or 3.

Panel wiring is not more complex with S7-300 as compared to S7-400. It is just that the form-factor is different.
With ET200S you have the advantage that you can in many cases drop the intermediary terminal strip.

A large plant spanning several square kilometers just begs for a distributed i/o solution. Just imagine the cost and time for having to pull all those signals back to a central control room.
But as you say that the cables are already there, then that point is irrelevant.
 
Just to clarify it:

Since you already have all cables pulled back to the control room, and you already have S7-400, then I agree that it is better for you to go all S7-400.
 
ok thanks Jespeer

i yet didnt take discison. that my career turn project so i am much consiouse. i dont want to remain single confusion in my mind.

now i am going to S7 416 with Dp cp and Ether Net CP, Et 200 M (Network with CPU DP Port) some Analoge I/O with redundancy and Master network is also redundant. Ether net And Fiber ring for Master Network and DP port of CP for Slave Network.

wish me good luck

thanks once again
 

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