PLC and SCADA Startup - Information Required

QasimFSH

Member
Q
Join Date
Apr 2018
Location
Adelaide
Posts
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Hi all,

I hope all of you are doing great. I am now on the verge of starting my own automation business-mainly focusing on PLC and SCADA services, but also providing custom solutions that involve hardware automation. [Location is Australia]

In terms of PLC, according to my knowledge and experience, Allen bradley is the market leader in Australia. Which other brands are used most..how much of industry is dealing with Omron (as I find them a bit cheaper at times)?

The reason why I am asking this is that I have to but Alliance packs-and in the early stages of my business, I dont want to spend too much.

Any advice or suggestions, please provide them here.

Thanks
 
Rockwell Allen Bradley are a marketing company foremost and charge for everything and in my opinion are not worth the extra $. Omron is a good choice. I have used Delta PLC's and drives for 10 years and have not had a single failure.

To prove a point ring NHP or your local wholesaler and get a price on the following 2 items that are identical and come out of the same factory.
Item No. 100C09VA10

Item No. CA79M40240VAC
Just my 2c worth








 
Omron is a good choice - prices are reasonable and the gear is good and guaranteed for 2 years.
the software you buy once and update for free unless there is a major upgrade and that in the past has only cost about $750 - no ongoing costs.
Still using the older series - software is too hard with the new stuff - bloody IEC.
If you want something cheaper for smaller jobs then Click PLC is a good choice. Prices are good and the new processors with Ethernet ports can be programmed online - the older ones did not have enough memory to allow this. 10 slots is it though. Software is free and is quite usable. Shame some of the others do not make software easy to use - most are way too clunky for mine. Speed is the essence - you can make good money on software - and also lose a lot of time and money with clunky stuff.
 
By the way I did some comparisons on PLCs some time ago - a huge spreadsheet. The AB 800 series is to compete with the cheapies - it does not. Software is free and is workable but clunky. If you want online programming you have to buy the software! Back handed way of going around things. Read my comments re the Click.
 
BobB said:
By the way I did some comparisons on PLCs some time ago - a huge spreadsheet. The AB 800 series is to compete with the cheapies - it does not. Software is free and is workable but clunky. If you want online programming you have to buy the software! Back handed way of going around things. Read my comments re the Click.
Click to expand...

Sorry I did not get the last part.. reclick?
 
Thanks Bob and KTM. The other good thing with Omron is that it will cost me probably nothing to become their system integrator, but others will. But its also a fact that if I have to deal with existing hardware which is already installed at some potential clients, I might have to get AB and maybe Siemens a Schneider`s software kits. Your thoughts?

Lastly, what do you guys suggest as the techniques to get clients? I plan going to networking events, and also visiting the factories and different potential clients. facebook and other social media is of course there. any other suggestions?
 
I dont know how it is "down under", but here in the EU, safety and CE compliance is a big thing. It is something that may overwhelm a small machine manufacturer.
So that is an entry-point for an integrator, to be able to help with compliance to standards, especially safety standards.
If on the other had, you do NOT want to work with standards and safety, be sure that your customer takes over the responsibility for that. If there is an accident with a machine with "your" control system, you can get in trouble.
 
JesperMP said:
I dont know how it is "down under", but here in the EU, safety and CE compliance is a big thing. It is something that may overwhelm a small machine manufacturer.
So that is an entry-point for an integrator, to be able to help with compliance to standards, especially safety standards.
If on the other had, you do NOT want to work with standards and safety, be sure that your customer takes over the responsibility for that. If there is an accident with a machine with "your" control system, you can get in trouble.
Click to expand...

My apologies, but I dont get what you are trying to say here? I am actually trying to know the most common brands used in Australia and the Oceania region- also if I have to provide a solution from scratch, which brands will be suitable. What you have said doesnt relate here, but maybe I dint get it, so kindly explain.

Thanks,
 
QasimFSH said:
My apologies, but I dont get what you are trying to say here? I am actually trying to know the most common brands used in Australia and the Oceania region- also if I have to provide a solution from scratch, which brands will be suitable. What you have said doesnt relate here, but maybe I dint get it, so kindly explain.
Click to expand...

What Jesper was mentioning is that a big point in Europe when it comes to systems integration (not just programming some PLCs) is if you're competent or certified to design a safe machine as per standards or not. This usually comes at a cost since it relies on knowledge and experience and as such salaries for people to do that aren't cheap and can make a difference for a small integrator.

If Australia is anything like the typical anglosphere (like UK and US), this is definitely something to bear in mind as you don't want to be on a losing end of a court battle over someone's death or injury.

As for brands, give Siemens a call... if you're serious about deploying their kit, they are likely to give you a leg up and assistance in doing so, particularly when you're replacing other vendor's kit with their own.

Their S7-1200 is quite capable platform for the price, but I would still look at the possibilities with the AutomationDirect stuff for cheap non-vital equipment.

With regards to SCADA, you can train and develop on Ignition for free. This is a huge selling point. Also try to get in touch with them to have ball park figures on customising the SCADA license as it could turn many projects a lot more attractive.
Other than them, most vendors are incredibly protective of their SCADA systems, so you may have to either get demo versions from someone to train or fork for training for yourself. Have a look at what is the common platform around you and aim for the most used if you see return on this.
However, do bear in mind your limitations... you can easily completely screw up iFix installations because of their dyslexic confirmation pop-ups, so don't take in more than you are completely comfortable in doing.
 
cardosocea said:
What Jesper was mentioning is that a big point in Europe when it comes to systems integration (not just programming some PLCs) is if you're competent or certified to design a safe machine as per standards or not. This usually comes at a cost since it relies on knowledge and experience and as such salaries for people to do that aren't cheap and can make a difference for a small integrator.

If Australia is anything like the typical anglosphere (like UK and US), this is definitely something to bear in mind as you don't want to be on a losing end of a court battle over someone's death or injury.

As for brands, give Siemens a call... if you're serious about deploying their kit, they are likely to give you a leg up and assistance in doing so, particularly when you're replacing other vendor's kit with their own.

Their S7-1200 is quite capable platform for the price, but I would still look at the possibilities with the AutomationDirect stuff for cheap non-vital equipment.

With regards to SCADA, you can train and develop on Ignition for free. This is a huge selling point. Also try to get in touch with them to have ball park figures on customising the SCADA license as it could turn many projects a lot more attractive.
Other than them, most vendors are incredibly protective of their SCADA systems, so you may have to either get demo versions from someone to train or fork for training for yourself. Have a look at what is the common platform around you and aim for the most used if you see return on this.
However, do bear in mind your limitations... you can easily completely screw up iFix installations because of their dyslexic confirmation pop-ups, so don't take in more than you are completely comfortable in doing.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, absolutely. I will be outsourcing this side to a technician, or maybe I will hire one permanently if things go well. I am an engineer by qualification and will definitely not step out of my premises. Also, I am looking into the insurances that I might get to keep me safe.
 
QasimFSH said:
My apologies, but I dont get what you are trying to say here? I am actually trying to know the most common brands used in Australia and the Oceania region- also if I have to provide a solution from scratch, which brands will be suitable. What you have said doesnt relate here, but maybe I dint get it, so kindly explain.
Click to expand...

I wrote my reply as an answer to this:
QasimFSH said:
Lastly, what do you guys suggest as the techniques to get clients?
Click to expand...
My point is that if you can combine your PLC and SCADA abilities with something that a customer would want help with, because he is essentially chanceless if he try by himself, then you have a better chance to get be contacted.
I am also thinking that the title "integrator" at the very least means you have a good knowledge of standards and safety.
It could also be something else, something that would be critically important to a potential customer. PLC and SCADA programming alone is possibly not enough.
 
BobB said:
Ah Jesper - Europe! Not so much here.
Click to expand...
Of course not. I was thinking that there is possibly something similar to IEC standards and the european machinery directive.

The reason I mention safety, is because everybody must meet the standards. So it is a way to get clients. PLCs and SCADAs is something 'everybody' can do.
Combine with safety and/or some other know-how, and you have a much better package to sell to clients.
 
You are going to find that you don't have a choice on propriety with some sites/clients. 4 out of 5 projects we do have a site standard, which may vary from specifying the brand, all the way down to the exact model of hardware.

Having said that, a large number of projects end up being AB. Stuff coming form Europe is usually Siemens, which you'll find a lot in FMCG or Food/Bev.

I would also caution against falling into a trap with non-major brands. We used to offer a "budget" system that ran CoDeSys for smaller clients or customers who could not afford AB/Siemens. Over the years those sites have expended significantly and that hardware/software can become difficult to support.
 

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