Parker/CTC HMI vs QuickPanel...Worth It?

This is narcissistically long, forgive me...

I had a vendor stop in here (don't you just love a cold-call, sheesh)and showed me a Parker/CTC HMI. Presently, I have standardized on a 6" QuickPanel w/ a serial interface (unless of course I need to incorporate E-net which nearly doubles the price). They're inexpensive, stable, and I've got a bunch of screens that I can start with and simply change my bit addresses where needed.
Now, ordinarily I have no interest in changing over products because I might save a little money here or there: it's not worth my time learning new software, redesigning my panels, going through the trouble of learning all the quirks and short-comings of a new product. Most vendors seem to forget that Engineering time is not free. But in this case, I'm considering it in the future.

According to the vendor (so consider the source), each unit some standard with E-net, serial, and Compact flash capabilities and costs about $20 more than my 6" QuickPanel with only serial communications. In fact, a 10" costs about what a 6" QuickPanel w/ E-net does.

A DVT camera can display it's image right on the screen instead of having to incorporate a PC on the machine to display the image. (if it could do Cognex too, that would be awesome)

And, on his demo, he actually had a touch-slider incorporated to set values. I guess this HMI isn't limited by a grid of touch cells to input data. I think, you can actually set a value (analog?) for timers, etc by sliding your finger along the slider. Nice feature.

The graphics looked great, I think its a TFT display, definately a step up from my current QPJ's STN display. The pictures on the display were definately much higher quality than the crude looking bitmaps on my QPJ, and the demo was only a 5".

So my question is, has anyone used these before? Is it worth the trouble? Typically I use SLC's when I can, Omron's when I should, and GE 90-30's if I must. All are very common, so I'm assuming the drivers are already designed for them. Anyone have any input?

John

I havent used that brand so cant say but if you are interested in using a plc/hmi with ethernet and compact flash then you may want to check out www.heapg.com

Being familiar with GE you should know a little about Horner. I worked in a plant that used nothing but these units because of price and simplicity, the software is free and it programs both plc and hmi. After working with them for a few months I could see why the PE/Maintenance Manager used them.

I haven't used that particular model of the Parker/CTC offering but I did a project where I used 6 Parker/CTC inustrial computers (15" touchscreens). I can offer you this feedback (which may be applicable as the touch screen is probably made by the same manufacturer).

There were 2 problems with the displays; 5 of the 6 displays had major bubbling in them, distorting the graphics. I was told that it was a result of the manufacturing process and some technical jargon but the end result was that the people that made the displays for CTC had fixed their process and they replaced the displays at no charge. The second problem was with the touchscreen, in particular the serial connection to the motherboard. There was a problem with the robustness of the cable, causing the mouse/touchscreen to not work - major problem on a unit that we didn't plan on using a keypad with. Again the displays were replaced no charge and the problem was corrected.

It might be wise to ask if the displays are manufactured by the same people who made these larger ones and find out if the technology used is the same; if so has it been updated to fix these problems.

The only other thing is that the protective overlays didn't stick to the screen too well and kept falling off.

I have never used the Parker/CTC screen either but I do know that if you use Pro-Face software on you QP's they will look and feel much better than they do now. The Quick designer software limits the panel. This, however, does not solve your learning curve issue and the other screen may indeed have more features for the money. Just an FYI.

Do you have a good reason to change?

Some of the machines I work on use the CTC screen. I have not used QuickPanel, so I can't offer a comparison.

You mentioned the price was good. I actually thought the price was a little high compared to other brands. Maybe our 'special' price is high? This is one reason I would consider dropping this line completely. I can get the same features at a lower price on another brand we also use.

The Ethernet does work. I've used it to interface with a SLC 5/05 and with a SLC 5/04 using the NET-ENI. Communications was easy to setup.

As for displaying a camera image, I have not done this. Depending on the model you buy, the screen has a PC with a Windows operating system. The software gives you hooks to the OS.

Regarding your slider comment, they work well, but I prefer a button. You can place objects just about anywhere. So you can layout your screens just about anyway you want. I think that's nice.

The graphics are nice. The tools are also nice, especially with their latest version of software, InteractX. I have not used it, we stayed at the older Interact version which does not have the fancy "eye-candy" graphics. We haven't change for the same reason you hesitate - we already have screens laid out and ready to go. But most brands have nice graphics and tools.

As for device drivers, they have a bunch (look at their web site, they are available for free download). They claim they'll work with you to develop a driver they don't already have.

There have been a couple of posts about hardware. I have not seen any hardware problems that were not self inflicted. So my observations have been the hardware is good - and software for that matter. We tried to use a different brand of compact flash but it would not format correctly, so we stuck with their recommended SanDisk brand.

I like sending a compact flash disk to a customer if they need a change. The download utility is free, so we have even e-mailed 'emergency' changes to our customers so they can download themselves.

As for, "Is it worth the trouble?" - I think only you can answer that. I used CTC over others brands because it had a feature that, at the time, I needed but couldn't find on any other product. That was a good reason for me. If it's tempting, get their trial software. It's the full version, with just a time limit (45 days?).

Could you please give me CTC web site.To see whate they offring.
Thanks

I have not used CTC myself, so I cannot offer anything first hand other than the fact when I looked at them a few years ago (probably 2) they still used DOS as their panel operating system.

I can offer some info on the QuickPanel products. QuickPanels are TCP products, which is owned by G.E (duh). They are actually Digital Electronic's panels that were brand labeled by TCP now G.E. I say that to say this. Dec 31 of this year G.E will no longer have access to the QuickPanel hardware, so they are trying to get everyone switched over to their new WinCE based panels produced by Computer Dynamics in S.C. Why you might ask, well Scheider Electric purchased Digital Electronics in the winter of '02 and apparently decided to forgo any brand labeling with G.E. Where does this leave customers that use QuickPanels? You can either start using G.E's new panels, or you can purchase the (orginal) hardware from Digital Electronics. In the U.S.A you can purchase QuickPanels from Xycom Automation using the same TCP part numbers. Xycom calls the QuickPanels, PanelStations since QuickPanel is a registered trademark to G.E.

check out http://www.panelstation.com/ for more info

Now for the info I wanted to share. Xycom sells the hardware you are using today, and they sell updated hardware that includes CompactFlash, Ethernet, TFT screens, video input and all the other stuff you mentioned you liked about CTC. They also sell QuickDesigner and GP-Pro software, which has more features than QD. The other thing you will find is that the new hardware (called GP2000 series) is actually a lot cheaper than the PanelStations and QuickPanels you are using today.

For more info check out these sites.

http://www.xycom.com/
http://www.pro-face.com

Runderwood

Control Freak, what kind of pricing did this guy quote you for the 6" and 10". Just interested.

Willpower

Actually, he didn't give me an actual number, but this is the same vendor who carries the Pro-Face line. So, to answer your question, I don't know. I'm not even sure if he's comparing prices at per-piece or in quantity. It's still to early to tell. At this stage of the game, vendors tend to promise the moon, with drivers for every planet, until that purchase order comes in...

Presently, I get a great price on our QuickPanels, because I have made them my standard. I put a QuickPanel on nearly every machine, even those with only a handful of sensors- It's just plain easier! Why eat up all of my I/O with fault lights, and all my time wiring?

Right now, I think, the Pro-Face/QuickPanel battle is helping with the prices. A little competition is always good for the consumer, don't you think?

Guest said:

I have not used CTC myself, so I cannot offer anything first hand other than the fact when I looked at them a few years ago (probably 2) they still used DOS as their panel operating system.

I can offer some info on the QuickPanel products. QuickPanels are TCP products, which is owned by G.E (duh). They are actually Digital Electronic's panels that were brand labeled by TCP now G.E. I say that to say this. Dec 31 of this year G.E will no longer have access to the QuickPanel hardware, so they are trying to get everyone switched over to their new WinCE based panels produced by Computer Dynamics in S.C. Why you might ask, well Scheider Electric purchased Digital Electronics in the winter of '02 and apparently decided to forgo any brand labeling with G.E. Where does this leave customers that use QuickPanels? You can either start using G.E's new panels, or you can purchase the (orginal) hardware from Digital Electronics. In the U.S.A you can purchase QuickPanels from Xycom Automation using the same TCP part numbers. Xycom calls the QuickPanels, PanelStations since QuickPanel is a registered trademark to G.E.

check out http://www.panelstation.com/ for more info

Now for the info I wanted to share. Xycom sells the hardware you are using today, and they sell updated hardware that includes CompactFlash, Ethernet, TFT screens, video input and all the other stuff you mentioned you liked about CTC. They also sell QuickDesigner and GP-Pro software, which has more features than QD. The other thing you will find is that the new hardware (called GP2000 series) is actually a lot cheaper than the PanelStations and QuickPanels you are using today.

For more info check out these sites.

http://www.xycom.com/
http://www.pro-face.com

Runderwood

Click to expand...

So what you are saying is GE is going to have to abandon there current Quickpanel because they can't buy the hardware anymore ???????

When Total Control had the quickpanel line it was an impressive offering. The qpanels I've had since 98 are still better than alot of the ones available today (panelview ).

Only since GE bought total control have I had any problems. I tried to install an old repaired QP a couple of weeks back and downloaded to it with updated software and it didnt' work (long story seemed to download OK just didn't work right). GE tech support 0 help. Ended up having to use OLD software to make it work.

This has got me P.O'd big time, I'll be damned if I buy the CE version. The really bad part is I had to learn about it here, not from my REP

ArikBY: The here is the CTC-Parker web-site.

DOS OS: The original Interact (their HMI software) was DOS based. So, their hardware used DOS as the operating system. This shouldn't be a problem unless you are trying to hook into another application that requires a Windows OS. Their claim was that DOS was more stable than Windows. Their latest offering, InteractX, runs under a Windows OS - I do not remember which one. InteractX is the version that looks really nice.

Does anyone use these features on another brand? When I was looking for an HMI I wanted two things in particular. The ability to e-mail updates to a customer and have them download without requiring them to purchase expensive development software. The other is the ability for recipe or part data to be created and saved at the HMI. Most HMIs allow recipe recall only, but I needed the ability to change the data and then either 'save' or 'save as' a new file name from the HMI. I also wanted to give the customer the ability to back-up those part data files to another memory device. When I first looked (1997), CTC was the only one I could find that could do this - or had salesmen who could demo it. By 2000, Mitsubishi could, but I already had my layouts established. Does anyone use an HMI that has these features that they are happy with?

allscott,
I completely understand... At some point I spent nearly an entire day trying to solve a communications problem. GE wasnt really able to provide any help. I checked the cable wiring, twice, verified it with both manufacturers (GE & Omron), checked the port settings, verified the whole project with whatever BS utility comes with the software, downloaded and installed the current "service pack"... Turns out it was some missing 'bit qualifier' in a tag. Tech support had no idea, seriously, none. In fact, if you look at GE's documentation for an Omron PLC, you'll see that they show you how to connect the QuickPanel to an Omron C20K or to a C200H. LOL, I don't think any of those items have been available from Omron in quite some time.
After much wasted time, I was simply missing a ":b00" on a tag. This was nested SO deeply in the "QuickHelp" (quick my butt), no one could possibly find it. In fact, even if you know what you're looking for, it's still a chore to interperate. If you have a Quick Designer, try to find the Tag address break-down for an Omron PLC. Any PLC for that matter. It's something you can do quickly only if you have done it before.
I found it only with the help of a friend who had used the panel with an Omron before and remembered the problem. If you have any problems, feel free to contact me, maybe I can help.
John

Control Freak;

Here was my problem. I was using a qp with siemens s5 on profibus. I updated all of my software as we are always told to do and tried to download to an older "repaired" panel. Turns out a new "feature" was added to the profi comm. The analog config on profi is two 8 bit bytes. The feature added was a check box to configure which of the two byte words, left or right, was most significant. This may be useul to someone but WHEN THE FEATURE WAS ADDED THE ORIGINAL CONVENTION SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEFAULT , it wasn't, this really screwed us up and took awhile to find.

After straightening that out we went to use the panel and found out that if a button was held on the screen that none of the displays would update as long as the button was held. Maybe not a problem with 90% of the applications out there but with ours it was a major problem. We ended up installing an old version of the software (total control) and everything was fine.

BTW, I will come here the next time I have one of these goofy problems.

Control Freak said:

allscott,
I completely understand... At some point I spent nearly an entire day trying to solve a communications problem. GE wasnt really able to provide any help. I checked the cable wiring, twice, verified it with both manufacturers (GE & Omron), checked the port settings, verified the whole project with whatever BS utility comes with the software, downloaded and installed the current "service pack"... Turns out it was some missing 'bit qualifier' in a tag. Tech support had no idea, seriously, none. In fact, if you look at GE's documentation for an Omron PLC, you'll see that they show you how to connect the QuickPanel to an Omron C20K or to a C200H. LOL, I don't think any of those items have been available from Omron in quite some time.
After much wasted time, I was simply missing a ":b00" on a tag. This was nested SO deeply in the "QuickHelp" (quick my butt), no one could possibly find it. In fact, even if you know what you're looking for, it's still a chore to interperate. If you have a Quick Designer, try to find the Tag address break-down for an Omron PLC. Any PLC for that matter. It's something you can do quickly only if you have done it before.
I found it only with the help of a friend who had used the panel with an Omron before and remembered the problem. If you have any problems, feel free to contact me, maybe I can help.
John

Click to expand...

HELLO EVERYONE

I AM USING MITSUBISHI Q20 CPU FOR MY PROJECT. I AM USING PARKER PC INTERACTX HMI SOFTWARE AS A GUI. INTERACTX HAS GOT MITSUBISHI ETHERNET DRIVER TO COMMUNICATE WITH MITSUBISHI Q SERIES PLCs. bUT SINCE I HAVE USED IQWORKS FOR PLC PROGRAMMING AND CONFIGURATION AND I HAVE USED LABELS IN MY PROJECT. DOES ANY BODY KNOW HOW TO ACCESS THESE LABELS IN INTERACTX ETHERNET DRIVER FOR MITSUBISHI?

OR IS THERE ANY OTHER METHOD BY WHICH I CAN ACCESS MY PLC TAGS IN INTERACTS SOFTWARE?

ANY HELP WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

Hi
Make your own thread, you will get more response than resurrecting an 8 yr old post