OT: Ethics

daba said:

Well, all said, here's hoping that responsible management exists in this case....

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Daba, I've been to some s$%tholes (medium to large size companies) and I can say that "The Great Gods of production" dictate what's safe and what's not.
At the end of the day/week/month, what matters to them (management) is the bonus!!
It may sound like a joke to you but it is what it is (I just got back from U.K and I know where you're coming from).

Paul, if I were you, I'd look for another job, you are a highly skilled and over-qualified individual for the place.
The market is good for a move right now.
If they done it once, they will definetely do it again.
Politics in the work place rule, you already know that.

bkottaras said:

Paul, if I were you, I'd look for another job, you are a highly skilled and over-qualified individual for the place.

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It's already done. But my boss took a pot shot at my life and safety, so I am going to take justice as far as necessary, torn between forgiveness and rage, punishment and vindictiveness from me. They should be prosecuted no matter how sorry I feel for their ignorance. Anything short of a judgement and prosecution of the two guilty individuals in court. I cannot in good conscience allow them to move to antoher state and become a danger to more of their subordinates. After another hour, I may flip back over to the wait and see, but right now, I really want to see them led away in handcuffs so that I know there won't be repercussions. I know that is a fantasy and unrealistic, but this is life or death, and primal rage is burning at the moment.

Tom Jenkins said:

You might consider dropping a dime on them to OSHA. Even if you extract yourself from the situation it establishes and attitude that will endanger someone at some point.

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Yeah, that's like pawn number two and to put my twist on it. I am but two clicks away from submision of the full report. Were the law to be followed 11 of 14 froming machines would have to be replaced in order to McD's to retain one of their pet supliers.

My twist: I will carry my laptop to the impending meeting (if I ever have to see the bullies again) and show them the screen as I click the last click to OSHA with enough dirt to shutdown the whole plant.

The mere idea that I would bite the hands that feed me makes me nauseous. I want to give the owner and his familia a chance to right this thing...maybe they are honestly unaware of how bad this is. They may not grasp it. There will be zero doubt. Nada grey area when I get done with them.

Right now I am feeding them blank stares and rope, taking notes, leaking feedback to them here.

Thanks Tom.

Paul,
do what you need to do and stop posting on here for now.
No traces of any sorts.
Good luck!

The Plc Kid said:

Here defeating a LOTO is instant termination. No explanation,nothing. Does not matter who you are. Joe the greaser /oiler that started last week or the plant manager.

Cut a LOTO and your fired no exceptions. I have seen 3 people walked out the door for this. One of them very good and it hurt to lose him but he was still fired.

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And from what I recall, you guys pay out the Joe W. too?

Are you in need of an apprentice to train to be a network oracle like yourself? My kids iz purdy much raised, and I like it warmer and wetter...

What if the lock was ill placed and well intended based on a common sense adjustment.. Think like disconnecting motor leads and taping them off with a paper note. My lock didn't truly comply...wait...nevermind...that's probably impossible since you're company has a system which is actually in compliance...

Don't forget to take your meds in the morning.

Remember Sapulpa. Or was it Sand Springs?

They may argue that you didn't use "their" locks. Regardless, a lock is a lock. Placed and documented. REMOVING it is a far greater violation.

Meds. Breathe.

I want to give the owner and his familia a chance to right this thing...maybe they are honestly unaware of how bad this is.

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I think that's the best approach. If the mess can be corrected by getting rid of the bad apples and demonstrating that the company actually cares about personnel safety, it's worth going down that road. If not, the place should be shut down before somebody gets killed, even though that throws a lot of people out of work. Besides, if meeting production goals trumps personnel safety, it probably also trumps product safety. I occasionally buy burgers at McD's and don't want to have to deal with the after effects of a tainted batch of hamburger.

tomalbright said:

Don't forget to take your meds in the morning.

Remember Sapulpa. Or was it Sand Springs?

They may argue that you didn't use "their" locks. Regardless, a lock is a lock. Placed and documented. REMOVING it is a far greater violation.

Meds. Breathe.

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with flexing and dumbells and steak and eggs flying about, I amd ithcing for a 120vac electrocution death video of the most gruesome. Interent is as teh wind blows and its still raining here in the whitetail capital of this greate state.

with flexing and dumbells and steak and eggs flying about, I am in need of a scathing 120vac electrocution death video of the most gruesome kind. Internet is as the wind blows and its still raining here in the whitetail capital of this great state. Tom, I am going to go get a two pack of Bud light down the road and talk to my kids even if it means I have to revert to a two-toed-typist with a phone.

Yeah Sapulpa was triggered by eye surgery and stale a*mbien. It made me sleepwalk doing kung fu in my sons pajamas in the front yard. Next thing I know, wow, if I could tell you the whole story of sapulpa in person. You have not lived until you have jerked the tasers out of your chest.

That is probably now about the sixth highest ranking attempt on earthly fatality that has been attempted on my dusty scarred vessel.

I have been boat dragged by the neck and nose by a ski rope and idiot boater, slammed a mustang into a pole at 65 mph no seatbelt and walked away with two black eyes and a bloody nose, been in more two car accidents than I can quickly recall. swam for nine hours to survive a boat capsizing on a lake with two buddies one non-swimmer included who would be dead now without my quick action. Then there was the spinning 70 Cutlass in '84, another racing incident.

I never had my employer play russian roulette with my tools.

Q: What's black and crispy and hangs from the ceiling?

A: An amateur electrician.

/end lighten up mode.

lighten up is cool. I did get three more hours sleep, and am feeling zen creeping back over me, my ying and yang grin returns. ccc.
calm
cool
collected.

Irrespective of any arguments about LOTO procedures, they removed a padlock that had so obviously been put in place to protect someone working on the plant, without finding out who, why, and making them aware that the padlock was coming off, is in my view, criminally negligent, and if they knew whose padlock it was - bordering on attempted murder !!

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Yeah, part o' me is thinking lawyer up from the house. Cha-ching...Thunder MOney Ball I have not even kept up with the NBA for three days. Seeya!

I just now saw this and another nice post, thanks so much everyone.

Even though I got creative, my method (if recorded and approved) did require them to use bolt cutters to attempt to kill or injure me or the white-hats (machine operators), so it was pretty darn good lockout method requiring big tools or destrction of hte fuse block to defeat it and fire electrons into the pipe I was servicing. I can here him now "Paul, it's only 120v with a 3 amp fuse and we were watching at both ends, you broke the rules." as I queue up some death scenes at household voltage one the projector and refer them to an as yet unselected attorney.

daba said:

I would hope that the (ir)responsible persons are publicly dealt with, so that others will see the importance of LOTO.

Hope it all turns out well for you...

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This is my style.

It's all over now but the weeping and gnashing of teeth.


http://www.zelbst.com/thank-you.php

Paul,
do what you need to do and stop posting on here for now.
No traces of any sorts.
Good luck!

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Worry not my brother, every other time I have pitched a fit I ended up with at least a 20% raise and a nice change of scenery.

dmargineau said:

This goes way beyond the internal company's policies and any eventual "administrative" decisions...You case is truly to be addressed by the local Police department since it is nothing but a premeditated life threatening attempt...

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Not getting that type of response from the p.d. here. They asked me, "so he cut your lock off and played an April fools joke?"



..they are supposed to call me back some time. I am sure they have more important an urgent crime to deal with, so I will be patient.

First two lawyers I tried want nothing to do with it. I will find a hungry one eventually.

OSHA took my complaint. Then they explained to me how to officially make a complaint. After I made the 2nd complaint to adifferent person, it was explained how I can make the complaint official by fax. I have thought I complained 3 different times to OSHA once via email, once federal, once locally, but there are more steps...

It would not be wise to make these serious typs of allegations easy to put forth, otherwise the state would be bombarded with workplace violations and never get anything done. So, I will write the complaint a fifth time on paper and hand walk it into the OSHA office and make them look me in the eye if they blow me off (which is what I anticipate).

It's going slowly at the outset, I am getting good at describing the situation to strangers if nothing else.

Maybe I should just call McDonald's? LOL<-- maybe they have a drive thru complaint service with less paperwork and waiting.

On an even more personal note, I was offered free training in the field of massage by an ad on the lawyers website...sound like a good career change, because I have every intent of getting myself "blacklisted" as the guy who with zero tolerance for the criminally negligent.

Maybe I should just call McDonald's? LOL<-- maybe they have a drive thru complaint service with less paperwork and waiting.

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And as a bonus you can get fries.

But maybe you can only complain in person to OSHA if you are already dead. Sounds like a TV show.