I/O Link for safety

PLC Pie Guy · Jan 28, 2019

Hey All.
Im looking at using I/O Link for a new project.

This project has 16 Safety switches and 8 E-Stops. All this stuff I currently use with 8 Pin switches and cables, dual channel monitoring and a PLC Input for the switch status.

I run it all to a safety relay and that has worked well. But Now I have to build 2 new lines and I want wiring to be minimal and troubleshooting easier for the shift guys than its been with the traditionally wired system.

I was just talking to a Balluff Rep who told me that currently they do not offer any safety solutions for the EthernetI/P protocol.

So my question to you folks is...

Whats the best I/O Link system out there that DOES talk safety to EthernetI/P? Does such a thing exist?? What has your experiences been?

Thanks

mk42 · Jan 28, 2019

PLC Pie Guy said:
Hey All.
Im looking at using I/O Link for a new project.

This project has 16 Safety switches and 8 E-Stops. All this stuff I currently use with 8 Pin switches and cables, dual channel monitoring and a PLC Input for the switch status.

I run it all to a safety relay and that has worked well. But Now I have to build 2 new lines and I want wiring to be minimal and troubleshooting easier for the shift guys than its been with the traditionally wired system.

I was just talking to a Balluff Rep who told me that currently they do not offer any safety solutions for the EthernetI/P protocol.

So my question to you folks is...

Whats the best I/O Link system out there that DOES talk safety to EthernetI/P? Does such a thing exist?? What has your experiences been?

Thanks

As far as I know, the IO-Link protocol has only recently released safety built into the standard.

Balluff released a (not really standardized) solution a couple years ago. It uses Profisafe, which is used as part of Profibus/Profinet. AB/EIP doesn't play that game, and I don't think anyone sells protocol gateways that support safety.

I don't know of any other safety over IO link products that have been released, even now that the standard officially provides support.

Helliana · Jan 28, 2019

Most of the safety I/O have have seen in the Rockwell world has been PointIO.

seth350 · Jan 28, 2019

ASi could be a viable solution for you. You would then talk to the ASI master over EIP. Ifm has a nice selection and ABB has some operators as well.

Jeev · Jan 28, 2019

+1 for ASi or just put distributed I/O out there (Point or Armor). Different vendors will have some variations on I/O, for example PILZ have PDP67 and SICK have FlexiLink.

PLC Pie Guy · Jan 29, 2019

Point I/O for safety???

I'm interested... I didn't realize it was a possibility.
I will do some research on this subject. I'm very used to using Point I/O. Normally I use the AENTR for this job. Likely there is one dedicated to safety.

Thank you Folks!

Geospark · Jan 29, 2019

PLC Pie Guy said:
...This project has 16 Safety switches and 8 E-Stops. All this stuff I currently use with 8 Pin switches and cables, dual channel monitoring and a PLC Input for the switch status...I run it all to a safety relay and that has worked well...

By the sounds of it, you are more used to the traditional hardwired Safety circuits wired to dual redundant Safety relays for monitoring. Here, the Safety relay performs as the logix solver and may also provide diagnostics.

For EtherNet/IP Safety, which is CIP Safety implemented over Ethernet, you must first consider the logic solver/diagnostics side of the equation. Your, I assume, standard PLCs, to which you have been wiring Safety device auxiliary input signals, cannot act as a Safety-related part of the control system (SRPCS). CIP Safety data must be handled by a certified Safety Master.

To use the likes of POINT Guard I/O modules, you can add them in with standard modules on a Distributed I/O system and communicate both types of CIP data (Standard & Safety) back through a 1734-AENTR. There is no dedicated communications adapter required. They are all just packets of CIP data, after all, with some differences in their payload. In fact, you can also use Distributed POINT Guard I/O via a 1734-PDN DeviceNet adapter. It is what is done with the CIP Safety data back at the Master that is important. This is why you must use a certified Safety controller, such as a Compact GuardLogix controller, which is qualified to be used within the SRPCS.

PLC Pie Guy said:
Point I/O for safety???

I'm interested... I didn't realize it was a possibility....

This is also quite a step up from using Safety relays in the traditional manner you have described. I'm not saying you are not capable of working with Safety controllers, but it is a steep learning curve and considerably more expensive to implement. Just something you may not have considered while getting excited about the availability of POINT Guard Safety I/O modules.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that all this selecting of hardware should come after or atop the Risk Assessment requirements for this application, which I am sure someone has performed?
And I'll pop this tid-bit in here as well, as I just mentioned it for the first time last week - the 5380 Compact GuardLogix controllers can now achieve SIL3/PLe Safety level.

Regards,
George

PLC Pie Guy · Jan 29, 2019

Geospark said:
By the sounds of it, you are more used to the traditional hardwired Safety circuits wired to dual redundant Safety relays for monitoring. Here, the Safety relay performs as the logix solver and may also provide diagnostics.

For EtherNet/IP Safety, which is CIP Safety implemented over Ethernet, you must first consider the logic solver/diagnostics side of the equation. Your, I assume, standard PLCs, to which you have been wiring Safety device auxiliary input signals, cannot act as a Safety-related part of the control system (SRPCS). CIP Safety data must be handled by a certified Safety Master.

To use the likes of POINT Guard I/O modules, you can add them in with standard modules on a Distributed I/O system and communicate both types of CIP data (Standard & Safety) back through a 1734-AENTR. There is no dedicated communications adapter required. They are all just packets of CIP data, after all, with some differences in their payload. In fact, you can also use Distributed POINT Guard I/O via a 1734-PDN DeviceNet adapter. It is what is done with the CIP Safety data back at the Master that is important. This is why you must use a certified Safety controller, such as a Compact GuardLogix controller, which is qualified to be used within the SRPCS.

This is also quite a step up from using Safety relays in the traditional manner you have described. I'm not saying you are not capable of working with Safety controllers, but it is a steep learning curve and considerably more expensive to implement. Just something you may not have considered while getting excited about the availability of POINT Guard Safety I/O modules.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that all this selecting of hardware should come after or atop the Risk Assessment requirements for this application, which I am sure someone has performed?
And I'll pop this tid-bit in here as well, as I just mentioned it for the first time last week - the 5380 Compact GuardLogix controllers can now achieve SIL3/PLe Safety level.

Regards,
George

Agreed and Understood!!!

I am used to traditional safety relay monitoring. I have been exposed to safety PLC's a few times. Mostly against my will but..... pays the bills.

Learning it doesn't scare me so if its necessary. The cost is non-considerable.

The main driver here is the location of the future line. I can't go to this location every time they break a guard switch or destroy a cable that they can't troubleshoot. So, I need better diagnostics and less wiring. I need the system to say... Hey look at this guard switch here!!!! Also the installation of a safety system this large by contractors I don't know well scares me. It took me a long time to get a couple of the local contractors here to be able to understand the wiring and I believe the water is still murky.

A Rockwell guy pointed me today toward the GuardLink architecture.
A special GSR with an Ethernet adapter allows complete monitoring of the safety circuit while still handling all the logic internal. Meaning, I don't have to program a safety PLC. The best part is that its all contained on a trunk line with a T tap at each device to pick it up as well as continue the network. So I can have it all wired, commissioned and tested. Disconnected and packed up to go. Re-installation should be much quicker than wiring in all the junction boxes with hardwired circuitry onsite and no need for the electrical contractor to get into my control wiring.

Its looking promising but I won't know for sure until I get to see the demo.

Thanks for the input.

Geospark · Jan 29, 2019

PLC Pie Guy said:
...A Rockwell guy pointed me today toward the GuardLink architecture.
A special GSR with an Ethernet adapter allows complete monitoring of the safety circuit while still handling all the logic internal. Meaning, I don't have to program a safety PLC...

Nice option!

They're going to demo it for you, yeah?

I had read a short bulletin on the GuardLink products some time ago but had forgotten about them. I'd be very interested to hear what they are like to work with and how they perform.

G.

I/O Link for safety

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mk42

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Geospark

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