OT-Wellpump problems on a Sunday morning. HELP!

I get to start my day be trying to figure out a no water situation in my my house.

Submersible pump 3 wire pump. I opened up the control box and see that that is a capacitor, but no relay and timer. I would assume that to mean then that the motor itself must have a centrifugal switch.

When I energize the disconnect, I get:

~5Amps on RED (START winding)
~5Amps on YELLOW (COMMON winding)
0Amps on BLACK (RUN winding)

I only have cheap meters at home that seem to not have the ability to test capacitors. Would a bad cap cause this? I can only guess that if the cap is bad, when the switch changes to run, it can't so slows down and then closes back to start?

g.mccormick said:

I opened up the control box and see that that is a capacitor, but no relay and timer.

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I dont think you should not have a timer, you should have a line pressure switch, do you have a ohm meter? sounds like you have a open winding

Yes a BAD CAP could cause your motor not to start! And that is a common problem with these types of motor control.

damica1 said:

Yes a BAD CAP could cause your motor not to start! And that is a common problem with these types of motor control.

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The motor is starting but not going into run... so just guessing but I think the cap would cause not to start, the cap is only use when starting so it should still run if the cap is bad and the open winding would cause it not to run

When i say no relay, i mean no switching relay in the control box to disengage the start winding. This control box only has a cap and terminals. The motor must have the switch. I believe this to be a cap start cap run motor, so im hoping that a bad cap is the cause. Like i said, i only have a crappy meter here at house with no means to test cap. I ohmed out the wires with:
Red, yellow, black each to ground is about 13megaohms.

Red to yellow 9ohms
Red to black 13ohms
Yellow to black 4.5ohms

Well at least you know its not open so it does sound like the CAP... maybe its just to damn cold to run

The crawlspace is a nice 68F/37%RH. Its 20F outside though so I really really really don't want to be pullinga pump.

Off to lowes to find a cap (and maybe a meter that reads caps)

Ok new information, I'm an idiot and was putting current clamp on wrong wires. I was previously measuring the wires going to the disconnect, not from the controller/to motor. Now that I have that lined out this is my current readings.

Red 3A
yel 3.8A
Blk 4.5A

Since the Red does not drop out, I'm still hoping on a bad cap that is not getting motor up to speed enough to drop out the start winding.

g.mccormick said:

so I really really really don't want to be pullinga pump.

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I will pull your pump if you do my taxes.... 2 days 4 times a year for quarterly and once a year for the year end 2 days, 10 days a year doing paperwork and all I wanted to do was fix machines

Good luck with your pump!

It's probably either the cap or the centrifugal switch. If replacing the cap doesn't do the trick you can simulate the action of the centrifugal switch by disconnecting the cap shortly after energizing the circuit. Wear gloves and eye protection because it will probably draw an arc when you disconnect.
If that works it is because the centrifugal switch has failed in the closed position and you could rig up a time delay relay to replace the centrifugal switch until the weather is better suited to pulling the pump. If the centrifugal switch has failed in the open position you'll have to pull up the pump and most likely replace the entire unit. Even if it is repairable, I personally would not trust my ability to properly reseal a submersible pump.

I would not spend a lot of time troubleshooting this. I mean, it can be the pump OR the cap. I would just go buy a cap and a pump and replace the cap first, then swap the pump. I mean, if you want to test for a centrifugal switch you have to drag the pump out.

Might as well see if the pump spins up. It could now be damaged from running dry. Yet another thing. Either way you will need a pump, a cap, or both!

I went and bought a new "control box", which has a cap and relay in it. I also bought a meter that measures capacitance (all Lowe's).

When I got home I measured the old cap at 20mf, which is what it is suppose to be.
I then put in the new "control box" and energized. With this one, you can hear the relay drop out the start winding very quickly. The current draw on the black and yellow is roughly 7.3A on this new meter.

Still no water. I have called and a well guy is going to be coming by hopefully in a few hours.
At this point, it could be anything from a blockage (god I hope its not a frozen pipe underground), ruptured line (in the well, or underground), bad pump, bad ???

I have never pulled a well pump, and I don't have pullies or anything else, so I called in the experts. I'll let you all know what we find (hope its not terrible and not too expensive).

My original submersible died 4 years ago (it was 35 years old).

I, like you, had never pulled a pump and I hired the local well guy and I'm glad I did. He had mechanical tow-truck like hoist on his truck and it required several serious 'jerks' to free the old pump so it could be pulled out.

And he noted that the sanitary adapter on the exposed pipe above ground was missing, meaning insects and mice could manage to find their way in, fall and drown and pollute the well water. I gladly paid the $20 for the sanitary adapter, but I wouldn't have even known it was missing in the first place.

I asked about the pump brands and the well guy had very strident opinions about the brand he uses because he doesn't want "call backs' for pump/motor issues. I went with his judgement.

I did willingly pay about a 15% premium on the pump/motor assembly in order to get the top of the line submersible (stainless rotor instead of plastic). He said I the first homeowner who ever inquired about the 'grades' of submersibles. Everyone else just wants 'the cheapest'. Not me, I want quality, even when it costs and it always does. He was a great well guy, but I hope I never have to ever call him again and use his services again and if costs an addition $35 for pump so be it.

Not a hint of problem with the replacement stuff since it happened 4-5 years ago.

Dan

I had the well guy come by. He ran a test on the motor leads (I'll withold opinion on what I thought of the test remembering that he is not an electrical engineer/electrician). We discussed it and came to the conclusion that it must be a pump/motor issue. Unfortunately no pump house is open today, so he will be back tomorrow afternoon and we will be pulling and replacing pump. If I had ever done this, and I hand an extra set of hands, I would do it myself. I guess that is the price of admission paying for a service (as hard as it is to concede having to pay someone else to do it). He will be providing a Grundfos pump.

First the 5 amp load on the 2 power legs doesn't really tell us much we would need to know what the name plate FLA for that pump is 5 amps at 240V would be about 1,200 W about 1.5 hp. No current on the cap leg would lead me to believe the motor started successfully and is running up to speed the cap is only needed to start the motor you can disconnect the cap after the motor is up to speed. With a cap start motor there in no centrifugal switch rarely are they used in submersible pump in fact I have never seen one. I have seen the impeller come off the motor shaft, also the check valve just above the motor may have failed to open that would give you full or overload on the motor with no output flow.
As for pulling the pump that not to bad they have machine to do that
if you replace the pump replace the wires and heck valves as well you don't want to have to do it again.