Advice on firmware upgrades for L35E units

TLDR: What is your experience upgrading firmware on Control/CompactLogix controllers, and what advice would you have for me?




We have one L55/A and eleven L35E CPUs in a treatment plant, all running either firmware version 15 or 16. They are all performing process control tasks such as valve position settings/feedback, flow rate monitoring, pump run/stop/speed control/feedback, and reading various process variables. They don't do anything extremely complex like motion or high-speed I/O.


We have backup copies of all programs.



We have RSLogix licenses through version 32.



I'm struggling to get RSLogix 15 or 16 to run on a modern Windows 10 computer, so we're currently stuck using an old XP system to program these units.


I realize we could use a VM with older Windows O/S and install older versions of RSLogix, but I would prefer to eliminate this step if possible.


I would prefer to upgrade the firmware of these devices to a version that does run on Windows 10.


To that end, what advice would you have for me in regard to upgrading firmware? Any caveats, warnings, experience etc that would be helpful in avoiding pitfalls?



For example, should I try to go to the highest possible version allowed by the hardware, or stay with the lowest version supported by Windows 10?



Any weird issues I should watch for afterward?


I'm basically just asking "if you have done this in the past, what kind of experience did you have, and what suggestions would you make?"


Thanks!

The last versions of 16 and 20 should run under Windows 10. These are the last compatible firmware revisions for some of the older controller models. If your controllers top out at 16, I would flash them all to that. If they can go beyond 16, I would flash them to 20.

I think your controllers top out at 20.

Edit: I think L55 ends at 16 and L35 ends at 20

Thanks @5618.

Personally, I'd leave them alone and just make a VM.

If they are working fine and always worked fine, leave them alone.

janner_10 said:

Personally, I'd leave them alone and just make a VM.

If they are working fine and always worked fine, leave them alone.

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Thanks for your reply. I'm curious what issues you've run into that cause you to say this.

ryangriggs said:

Thanks for your reply. I'm curious what issues you've run into that cause you to say this.

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I've personally never had it happen (on a PLC - have had it happen to a PC BIOS chip), but I understand that you can sometimes "brick" a CPU when flashing the firmware.

ryangriggs said:

Thanks for your reply. I'm curious what issues you've run into that cause you to say this.

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Not many, perhaps 3 or 4 times in 20 years.

But I was younger and more foolish, I tried updating a system that worked perfectly, always worked perfectly, nobody wanted it updating but I did it anyway.

There was a problem and it took all day to recover. A complete self-inflicted own goal for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

ryangriggs said:

I'm struggling to get RSLogix 15 or 16 to run on a modern Windows 10 computer, so we're currently stuck using an old XP system to program these units.

I realize we could use a VM with older Windows O/S and install older versions of RSLogix, but I would prefer to eliminate this step if possible.

I would prefer to upgrade the firmware of these devices to a version that does run on Windows 10.

Click to expand...

Certainly, if you can't get a programming tool to work for maintaining a PLC program, it may be worse than having an issue with a firmware upgrade that you do have programming support for.

Do you have extra processors available in your spare parts crib?

You could take one machine at a time; perform the firmware upgrade on the program offline and put it into the spare PLC. Then swap it out the "new" one for the PLC with the older version and try it. If it creates a problem that is not obvious to fix, you could immediately swap it back to the older PLC.

This was a method I used to upgrade PLC-2 systems with a PLC-5. Those older systems could be tougher to upgrade and I recall one upgrade taking a week of back and forth to resolve issues that popped up with the newer processor. Production ran during the day and I had to tryout the upgrade on the off-shift over the course of the week.

That is a really great idea. Yes we have extra L35E CPUs but not L55/A. I think I need to start shopping around on ebay for a couple of these.


Thanks for this suggestion.

jstolaruk said:

Certainly, if you can't get a programming tool to work for maintaining a PLC program, it may be worse than having an issue with a firmware upgrade that you do have programming support for.

Do you have extra processors available in your spare parts crib?

You could take one machine at a time; perform the firmware upgrade on the program offline and put it into the spare PLC. Then swap it out the "new" one for the PLC with the older version and try it. If it creates a problem that is not obvious to fix, you could immediately swap it back to the older PLC.

This was a method I used to upgrade PLC-2 systems with a PLC-5. Those older systems could be tougher to upgrade and I recall one upgrade taking a week of back and forth to resolve issues that popped up with the newer processor. Production ran during the day and I had to tryout the upgrade on the off-shift over the course of the week.

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I agree with "jstolaruk", you should always have a least on spare controller on hand for failure. These are older processor so you should be able to get them inexpensively from used suppliers. think e...
I have upgraded a lot of controllers in our plant so we were running on the same level of firmware for that series of controller. When Rockwell legacyed the PLC firmware we went to the highest level (16 & 20). Flash them up to 16 & 20, but you might want to wait until later in the year. I have heard that Rockwell is going to have a fix for the Microsoft issue that will render RSLink and other comm programs inoperable. They say they will have the fix for 16 & 20 so older processors are not usable (for once). I sure hope they are right or I am going to have a real fun conversation with my production manager.

If you have a spare slot in your Logix rack you can just put the PLC you need to flash in the spare slot and flash it through the ethernet card.

The biggest thing to remember is DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING COMMUNICATING WITH COMPACTLOGIX DURNIG A FLASH. If you do (like a message from another processor or Remote I/O) it has a high likelihood of bricking the processer. Flash it using a local network, then you can download the updated program to it. Just make sure it can not "see" the processor you are replacing or they will conflict when they are both on.

This is an excellent tip and something I didn't consider. Our processors are constantly communicating with the SCADA software and also with each other. I will definitely keep this in mind. If I do the "swap out" method, I can flash a CPU when it's isolated, then plug into the production stack and go.

Keystone said:

The biggest thing to remember is DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING COMMUNICATING WITH COMPACTLOGIX DURNIG A FLASH. If you do (like a message from another processor or Remote I/O) it has a high likelihood of bricking the processer. Flash it using a local network, then you can download the updated program to it. Just make sure it can not "see" the processor you are replacing or they will conflict when they are both on.

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I hate to say it but we are ALL going to need to flash ALL our PLC due to the Microsoft pending issue:

ID: PN1581 | Access Levels: Everyone
Product Notification 2022-01-001 - Rockwell Automation products unable to establish proper DCOM connection after installing Microsoft DCOM Hardening patch (CVE-2021-26414)

Look at: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...21-26414-f1400b52-c141-43d2-941e-37ed901c769c

and https://rockwellautomation.custhelp.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/1133982 (See attached)

You will need to coordinate with IT so they flip an option or one morning life will not be fun.
The only other alternative is use a virtual machine and NOT upgrade Window (not a great idea - big security risk).

If I am wrong about this please make my day and show me I am wrong, I would prefer it to being right and flashing all my PLCs.

EDIT - I was talking to tech support and "You won't have to upgrade, you will just need to install the patches on Linx, FT Services and Studio 5000."
Sorry about any undo worry - something we miscommunicated by my vendor.

DCOM: My understanding is the DCOM issue doesn't have anything to do with PLC firmware revision. It's more of a Windows Update that WILL kill DCOM. DCOM is between two Windows computer and not related to the topic in this thread.

Or if you never update your Windows PC or you don't use DCOM (not many do) then no worries.